Building a wood burning oven

[Dukerdawg]

This has been a back of my mind idea project for several years. Has anyone here built a wood bread/pizza home baking oven? If so was it worthwhile? I have seen very expensive internet offers that are way over my budget, and at times during great economic times have been tempted, but always have come to my senses. There is a local bakehouse in Ann Arbor Michigan that does baking classes and I have considered taking a few now and again, but could never justify the cost and make the schedule work with my business. Now they are offering a 16 hour class (4 hours per week for 4 weeks) on how to build a backyard woodburning oven, hands on. The cost is $400.00 and although I could cough up the money I wonder if the on-hands instruction is worth it. I would love to bake my own bread and pizza in a backyard oven and it sounds like a great thing to do. Any thoughts, ideas or personal experiences?

Duane

[mdvpc]

Duke-My friend, Daniel, who owns Cafe Italia here in El Paso built his own.

http://www.elpasocafeitalia.com/

He is building my wife and I one at our house soon. He lent us a book you may want to look at

The ultimate wood-fired oven book. by Anna Carpenter.

We want one and Daniel is going to build one for us.

[rxkeith]

duane,

my wife stacey was interested in building a wood fired oven of her own. so, she went to a 3 day class in minnesota, back when we were in ironwood last year, and learned how to do it. once we are back at the farm, that will be a future project. the oven she is interested in has a cement base, is built with cinder blocks, and can fire up to 6 batches of 16 loaves of bread with one firing. stacey likes to think big. we could invite the neighborhood over for a bread baking or pizza party. she recommends getting the hands on experience in addition to any book. so if you have the time, money, and interest, go for it.

keith

[Dukerdawg]

Thanks Michael and Keith. It sure is tempting. I am watching and there are still 7 openings for the class which is in May. With planting season starting the timing isn't great and I'm not sure where I would build an oven here either. 6 batches of 16 loaves! Wow. If you could do that ever day and sell the bread for 3.00 a loaf that would be 288.00 a day, less expenses, would be over 100,000.00 buck-a-roos a year. Not a bad way to make a living or supplement a gardening addiction.

Pizza party sounds like fun too!

Duane

[Ruth_10]

Do you bake bread often? Do you think you'll be baking bread 5 years down the pike? If you think you'd use it more than a couple of times a year, then it would be worthwhile. Otherwise it's something else to have to mow around in your yard.

I would love to have one. I've mentioned it several times to my DH and he isn't taking the hint. He's the bread baker in the household, so I guess I have to respect his deaf ear.

[nosnow]

Hi Duane,

We are also planning on building a wood fired oven here. No classes for us, that dough could go a long way to buying materials. Here is a really good website with lots of great links. I have literally spent days looking at all the resources there.
http://heatkit.com/html/bakeoven.htm

I hope the link works for you, I'm kinda computer challenged.

Joan

[matereater]

Duane, sounds like you better get busy so we can do a Tomato/Pizza/Bread tasting party for DATE

[newatthiskat]

Duane, something I always ask myself before taking a class. How often is it offered? Is it something that I am going to kick myself for if I don'take? Do I have the money? If I have the money and it is something I really want to learn, then I would do it. Some things it is easier to see before trying to do. I have thought about taken carpentry classes. Yes I know me wiht power tools. But I think eventually I will take them. A wood oven sounds neat. Go for it! Good luck
Kat

[dice]

What you probably need for this is basic masonry skills.

Here is a great website on building a fireplace that will
give you some idea of the type of challenges involved in
building a big brick or cinder block oven. (Note: refractory
mortar suitable for the heat of an oven is pricy.)

http://www.kuffelcreek.com/rumford.htm

(Trivia: In _Two Years Before The Mast_, Dana mentioned
a big bread baking oven that Russian sailors had built
on the beach at San Diego. A century later, Hawaiian sailors
that were between ships on the California coast had adopted
it for a year around clubhouse.)

[Worth1]

Hi Duane,

I know some of you guys are going to roll your eyes when you read this but I have laid fire brick, stone, and cinder block.
I have always mixed my own mortar and concrete because I don’t feel that the stuff you buy pre-mixed is as good as the stuff I mix.

It has been many years since I have done this but your post has brought up the fact that I too want a brick oven in the back yard.
I also want to put a REAL working fire place in the section of the house I plan on adding.
Most recipes for brick mortar call for 3 parts sand to 1 part cement, but many professionals use, 3 parts sand to 1.5 parts cement.
I like the last recipe myself.
I will stop here and give you some useful information,

By Bob Rucker
Many fireplace masons are not familiar with refractory mortar, or they confuse the product with fireclay mortar. Masonry fireboxes are often laid in ordinary portland cement mortar, sometimes with a little extra cement or some fireclay added to make the mixture “fireclay mortar.”

This approach is not surprising since the major building codes have been unclear, inconsistent, or silent on the subject. The ICC codes – recently adopted in many states –require refractory mortar for the construction of fireboxes, smoke chambers, and flue linings, but a short while ago only the NFPA 211 code called for “refractory mortar (ASTM C199, medium duty).” The BOCA code required “medium-duty fireclay mortar,” the UBC just required that the “joints in firebrick shall not exceed ¼ in.,” and the CABO One and Two Family Dwelling Code did not specify the type of mortar or size of joint to be used.

The problem with using ordinary mortar is that portland cement can’t take the heat. Oddly, portland cement retains its strength up to fairly high temperatures, but deteriorates as it cools down through about 600° F. Eventually all that is left of the mortar is the sand and fireclay, with no cement binder. The mortar has no strength and easily falls out of the joints, especially if they are wide.

Refractory mortar, on the other hand, is made with high temperature cements and carefully selected aggregates that don’t expand and tear the mortar apart when heated. The International Residential Code (IRC) and International Building Code (IBC), which were recently adopted in nearly all states, require that fireboxes, smoke chambers, and flue liners be laid with refractory mortar conforming to ASTM C 199.

Admittedly, fireplaces are not often used to heat with these days. Fireboxes laid in ordinary portland cement mortar may last for years if they are only fired up at Thanksgiving and Christmas. But, never mind that refractory mortar performs better, looks better, and is easier to use, there is another powerful reason to use the product – it’s required by code.
There are basically two kinds of refractory mortar conforming to ASTM C 199 and permitted by code. Hydraulic-setting mortar sets up, or cures, like portland-based mortars. Premixed or air-drying mortar comes ready to use in pails about the consistency of a drywall compound, and may be thinned with a little water.

Hydraulic setting
Hydraulic-setting refractory mortar is the best all-around choice. It can be used to lay the firebrick, set or parge the throat and smoke chamber, and set clay flue liners. It has the workability of ordinary portland-based mortar and can be made almost any shade using ordinary mortar color.
This type is the only one that should be used to set clay flue liners. Once it has cured, hydraulic-setting mortar becomes water insoluble and acid resistant. Premixed mortar dissolves in water even after dried and could wash out if the flue gets wet. Because hydraulic refractory mortar is acid resistant and water insoluble, it’s the only product for any clay flue that vents a gas or oil appliance.
Hydraulic-setting mortar is easier to ship and store than premixed. It comes dry in pails or bags and is not subject to separation, hardening, or freezing before it is used.

Hydraulic mortar works better in wet climates where the premixed product takes a long time to dry and sometimes leads to efflorescence.
Premixed refractory mortar is made with sodium silicate as a binder, which does not deteriorate with heat. Because the premixed refractory mortar is not a hydraulically-setting type (it dries out rather than cures by chemical reaction like ordinary mortar does), the mason can make very thin joints and doesn’t have to presoak the firebrick.
With a 1/16-in. to 1/8-in. joint and dry firebrick, the firebox can be laid rapidly. Ten seconds after setting a brick, it takes some effort to dislodge it. The fast drying out of the mortar does not compromise its strength like it would a hydraulically-setting mortar.

“I build my Rumford firebacks straight,” said author Jim Buckley, “but premixed refractory mortar makes building even a curved or slanted-back firebox a breeze because you don’t have to form it or wait for the mortar to set up.”

Premixed refractory mortar is messy, but remember that the product is water soluble so it cleans up easily. Don’t waste time trying to be neat. Just plan on washing the firebox down with water when finished.
“I butter a thin layer of the refractory mortar on the firebrick I’m going to lay,” said Buckley. “I use a small square margin trowel because it fits in the bucket of mortar better than a pointed brick trowel. The firebrick is laid with a minimal 1/16-in. joint and the excess mortar is scraped off with the trowel.”

After the firebox is completed – remarkably in only about 30 minutes –refractory mortar is added to any voids, smearing it heedlessly on the faces of the firebrick and making a perfect mess. (Do this work when the owner is not watching.) Then wash the firebox with clean water and a sponge and it looks beautiful.
Premixed refractory mortar sometimes causes efflorescence if it stays wet too long. The premixed is still my refractory mortar of choice in hot dry climates where the hydraulic mortar would dry out too fast if you don’t keep the bricks wet, but “I live in Washington State” and the hydraulic-setting refractory mortar is more versatile. It’s not water soluble and can be used to set the throat, smoke chamber, and flue liners, as well as to lay the firebox.”

Jim Buckley, Buckley Rumford Co., is one of the country’s leading experts on historic and efficient fireplaces. He was instrumental in changing the BOCA and ICBO codes, and more recently the new International Residential Code (IRC), to permit the tall and shallow Rumford fireplaces. Mr. Buckley is a member of the ASTM C4 and E6 committees, ASHRAE, and Residential Masonry Contractors Association, among others.
Bob Rucker has been involved in the sales, service, and installation of all types of refractory materials since the late 1960s. His company (CMS Industries Inc.) specializes in the area of refractory mortars for fireplace and chimney construction, both residential and commercial. Mr. Rucker is director of the New York State Concrete Masonry Association and secretary of the National Fire Protection Association NFPA-211, among others.

I won’t get into any debates about what is better I just posted it so you will know some facts about the right kind of mortar to use.
I have to tell you that I have seen mortar here in Austin that crumbles in my fingers just days after it has been set up.
The stones were falling apart and there were cracks everywhere.
This is due to two things, the weather was hot and the stone/brick was dry.
It soaked up the water and left the mortar dry with no chance of curing.
The other is the mortar did not have enough cement in it because of poor craftsmanship and cost cutting.

You should use fire brick and it should be soaked in water then let the surface dry a little before use.
You will also find that you want to use your hands to handle the mortar but don’t do this as it will burn your hands and crack them.
Use a trowel and keep every run dead level.

Get a good book on masonry. I just can’t see how a 16 hour class can give you even the basic skills on how to lay brick especially at $400
The first time I did stone work was a 12 hour day and I can tell you I only knew how to sort of mix mortar at the end of a day.

Many people think stone and brick masons are just stupid people that can’t get a job at some high-tech place.
This could not be farther from the truth.
A good mason is hard to come by these days and it is an art form that is dieing quickly.

One other thing you only have to build the OVEN from the fire brick, the outside can be anything you want it to be.
The thicker this oven is the longer it will stay hot.
Worth

[Dukerdawg]

Worth, interesting info. Thanks for posting that. I'm still undecided on the oven. I have decided not to take the class, mostly because the last 4 hour class is on the first day of the memorial day holiday weekend, which is one of the busiest days of the year for me. No way could I spare 6 hours (with drive time) to be away that day, and that being the last day of class I would imagine it would be quite important, not to mention I wouldn't want to miss a class I paid for. But it is definitely on my wish list. Sometimes I have so many great ideas, but not always the time and/or money to make them a reality. What does that make me?: Human!

[dice]

You could check the Craig's List barter category in your area
for journeyman masons looking to trade work for whatever.
Maybe you have something one of them would want for their
labor.

That way you get a professional job, specifications for quality
materials (that you are going to pay for), and they can take as
long as they want to do it, since that does not change the cost
to you (you are not paying by the hour).

[Woodchuck]

Consider an earth oven....no special skills required...and dirt cheap!
I love mine!!!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own...3812542&sr=1-1

<Woodchuck>

[Polar_Lace]

Originally Posted by nosnow

Hi Duane,

I hope the link works for you, I'm kinda computer challenged.

Joan

Well it wasn't working so this is the correct link:

The Brick Oven Page

~* Robin

[PaulF]

I'll have an extra large regular crust canadian bacon and mushroom with extra cheese; for the drink, make it a diet mountain dew and then a Guinness for after the pizza. Thanks, that will be eat-in, please.