Melon Sweetness...variety, soil, or weather?

**nctomatoman** · January 7, 2009

I am going to give muskmelons/canteloupes another go this year. I've been fairly disappointed with the flavors thus far....

Passport - nice looking large melons, and lots of them, but on the bland side. Consistently found lacking two years in a row.
Diplomat - JSS describes as very sweet, an improvement on Passport - tried last year, utterly bland, no sweetness at all, even trying different ripeness levels.
Noir de Carmes - smaller than I expected, pretty, plentiful, but again, way too bland for my taste.
Rocky Ford/Eden Gem - smaller than I like but pretty productive and flavor was acceptable, with a few approaching good...flesh not very thick - went from under to overripe quickly.
Tip Top - probably the best I've tried the past two years - good size, good productivity, flavor approached very good on a few melons.
Ananas - didn't do that much for me....variable in size, variable in flavor.

When I lived in PA, I grew Burpee's Hybrid and another Burpee hybrid called Sweet Dreams - both were great - sweet and flavorful. Ambrosia didn't fare so well - went overripe quickly.

Anyone have any particularly flavorful melons? I've not grown the Charentais types yet such as Savor or the original Charentais, though the descriptions are glowing. I've heard Green Machine is good.

montanamato · January 8, 2009

Oka....

Jeanne

Read the blurb on SSE internet catalog.

Wi-sunflower · January 8, 2009

Did you have lots of rain shortly before the melons ripened ?? If yes, that could partly explain the lack of flavor.

I haven't grown cantelopes for several years, but we do grow a lot of watermelons. This year we had a particularly goofy summer. Floods when planting. Then hardly a drop for the next 2.5 months. Not all that hot either. Not cool, just not hot.

We did have lots of Watermelons, but many of them weren't as large as in years past from the same varieties. BUT because things were so dry, they were very sweet this year.

Ruth_10 · January 8, 2009

I haven't grown that many types of cantaloupes/muskmelons, but Ambrosia remains my favorite by a long shot.

I grew Eden's Gem last year and had the same experience as you, Craig--taste was good but they are very small, single-serving melons. I found the charentais types to be variable, flavor-wise. I've grown Savor, Petit Gris de Rennes, and Trocadero. They like to split on the flower end when they're ripe. Rayyan (ananas type) didn't do well for me, but I only tried it once.

Big problem for me the past two years: Resident groundhogs, mother and child. They pretty much wiped out my melon crop.

In my experience, the major factor governing flavor is the variety. We had drought conditions for three years running and then last summer we set a new, all time record for rainfall. What melons I got to before the woodchucks did didn't seem to have suffered for the weather. (I grow on black plastic mulch for both my cantaloupe and watermelons. They seem to love the warmth and it is the only way I know of to keep the grass out. When I've tried to grow without the mulch, the melons have not competed well with the grass.)

natural · January 8, 2009

I think it is variety and then water. Too much water during ripening will dilute the flavor in our experience.

My favorite, sweetest melons have been:

Cantaloupe - Ambrosia
French melon - savor
honeydew - super dew
canary- san juan
spanish - sugar nut
galia - arava
Burpee has crème de la creme. This was very sweet and productive.

We really hold back the water as the ripening begins. We also grow on black plastic to help prevent the excessive water from rains. We drip irrigate when needed.

Bill

**nctomatoman** · January 8, 2009

I am thinking that the water thing is a factor, since in Raleigh in the summer, when it rains it pours....aside from the drought summer of a few years ago, water does not come in nice steady doses here!

Another is that they only got about 5 hours of full sun per day, so perhaps another factor in sweetness...though yield, size, etc were all fine.

The splitting thing was definitely an issue....once many of them approached ripeness, then we get the big storms, they develop cracks in the skin..which invites rot and bugs.

Some good ideas in this thread - thanks! I may give Ambrosia a shot down here in Raleigh.

PNW_D · January 8, 2009

Tania has some interesting ones .........

http://t-garden.homeip.net/mwiki/ind...vernaya_Papaya

PaulF · January 9, 2009

Two years ago all my melons were very flavorful. Last year most were on the bland side. The difference? Rains seemed to come at the right times and quit at the right time. During the growing season two years ago it rained about an inch per week and when it did not, I supplemented by watering (overhead sprinkling). Then the rain and the watering stopped for about the final three weeks of the growing season while the melons finished ripening.

Last year it rained about every third or fourth day during the final month. Some tasted pretty good while others were a bit bland.

I have not grown many varieties of muskmelon, but I like Pride of Wisconsin for its sweetness.

goodwin · January 9, 2009

I grew an orange-fleshed crenshaw called Crane or
Eel River last year which ripened a little later, but has to be the sweetest melon ever. I raise melons on plastic and drip irrigate.
Last year was a pretty good year. I set out Hales, Rocky Ford and Ambrosia, but that Crane was the best. I saved a bunch of seed and may not grow anything else this summer.

happyscientist · January 10, 2009

I have been going through my seed catalogs trying to figure out what to order. I have narrowed it down, but I can't decide, and I was hoping for opinions from people with a little more melon experince than me. I am in northern West Virginia where we have fairly cool (seldom above 90 degrees), wet summers, in case that makes a difference. Also, I have never grown melons, so I probably shouldn't start with a difficult variety.

Here is my short list: Jenny Lind, Petit Gris de Rennes, Noir de Carmes, and Charentais.

Thanks for any input.

Ruth_10 · January 10, 2009

Happyscientist,
The Petit Gris and Charentais are charentais varieties (I think Noir de Carmes is as well). One aspect of charentais varieties that can be a challenge is judging when they are ready to pick. They do not "slip" from the vine the way varieties like Ambrosia do. In addition, the charentais varieties are prone to splitting when they are ripe (I guess that is one way to judge ripeness, lol). In the Amy Goldman book she mentions Noir de Crames splitting at the stem end. As I mentioned in an above post, I've had Petit Gris and Charentais split as well. That leaves you with Jenny Lind, which is a netted type of melon. I could be wrong, but I think the netted types slip from the vine when ripe.

All of those varieties are flavorful. Jenny Lind might be an easier variety for the first time growing melons.

**nctomatoman** · January 10, 2009

I've grown Jenny Lind (in Pennsylvania years ago, but it was a good melon season), and though they were plentiful, they were quite bland, the flesh not very thick, and melons small. While it was fun to grow a bit of history, the whole idea is to eat and enjoy - so I never returned to it.

Noire de Carmes did very well for me last year production wise, but was not particularly flavorful either - most were quite bland even picked at different ripeness levels (it did slip from the vine when fully ripe). So, for me, never again!

But just my experience/opinion. (we had house guests for Tomatopalooza - all gardeners - and none of them cared for the flavor of N de C).

montanamato · January 11, 2009

Craig...I have lots of Oka seed if you want to try...It is outstanding and everyone who has tried it is blown away...I do not like melons, but have seen this one rated great by friends and family....
We do have lots of dry heat and long days of full sun, however the nights are colder than melons should like...It is good sized, but I think production was average....For the best production I grow a short season hybrid Fastbreak and it pumps out many smaller melons....

Jeanne

spyfferoni · January 14, 2009

I grew melons for the first time last year. My watermelons didn't fair as well as my Chantereis and musket melon. I actually got the musket melon seeds from an aunt of a friend. They have been in their family for about 50 years. Her grandfather grew and sold the melons (called cantelope here). Every year they save seeds from the largest, sweetest, and juiciest melons. They were phenomenal. They are the oblong variety with the dark green ribbing. the Chantereis melons were good. They tasted similar to musket melon only crisper. They weren't as productive as the musket melons were. I grew them on black plastic and they did great. My watermelons just had grass clippings for mulch and did not fair nearly as well. I read in Amy Goldman's book that melons like black plastic, I will try watermelons again with black plastic. I am anxious to try some new varieties. I recommend checking our Amy Goldman's book, "Melon's for the Passionate Grower." Luckily our library had it.

Tyffanie

January 7, 2009	#1
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Melon Sweetness...variety, soil, or weather? I am going to give muskmelons/canteloupes another go this year. I've been fairly disappointed with the flavors thus far.... Passport - nice looking large melons, and lots of them, but on the bland side. Consistently found lacking two years in a row. Diplomat - JSS describes as very sweet, an improvement on Passport - tried last year, utterly bland, no sweetness at all, even trying different ripeness levels. Noir de Carmes - smaller than I expected, pretty, plentiful, but again, way too bland for my taste. Rocky Ford/Eden Gem - smaller than I like but pretty productive and flavor was acceptable, with a few approaching good...flesh not very thick - went from under to overripe quickly. Tip Top - probably the best I've tried the past two years - good size, good productivity, flavor approached very good on a few melons. Ananas - didn't do that much for me....variable in size, variable in flavor. When I lived in PA, I grew Burpee's Hybrid and another Burpee hybrid called Sweet Dreams - both were great - sweet and flavorful. Ambrosia didn't fare so well - went overripe quickly. Anyone have any particularly flavorful melons? I've not grown the Charentais types yet such as Savor or the original Charentais, though the descriptions are glowing. I've heard Green Machine is good. __________________ Craig

January 8, 2009	#4
Ruth_10 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MO z6a near St. Louis Posts: 1,349	I haven't grown that many types of cantaloupes/muskmelons, but Ambrosia remains my favorite by a long shot. I grew Eden's Gem last year and had the same experience as you, Craig--taste was good but they are very small, single-serving melons. I found the charentais types to be variable, flavor-wise. I've grown Savor, Petit Gris de Rennes, and Trocadero. They like to split on the flower end when they're ripe. Rayyan (ananas type) didn't do well for me, but I only tried it once. Big problem for me the past two years: Resident groundhogs, mother and child. They pretty much wiped out my melon crop. In my experience, the major factor governing flavor is the variety. We had drought conditions for three years running and then last summer we set a new, all time record for rainfall. What melons I got to before the woodchucks did didn't seem to have suffered for the weather. (I grow on black plastic mulch for both my cantaloupe and watermelons. They seem to love the warmth and it is the only way I know of to keep the grass out. When I've tried to grow without the mulch, the melons have not competed well with the grass.) __________________ --Ruth Some say the glass half-full. Others say the glass is half-empty. To an engineer, it’s twice as big as it needs to be.

January 8, 2009	#6
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I am thinking that the water thing is a factor, since in Raleigh in the summer, when it rains it pours....aside from the drought summer of a few years ago, water does not come in nice steady doses here! Another is that they only got about 5 hours of full sun per day, so perhaps another factor in sweetness...though yield, size, etc were all fine. The splitting thing was definitely an issue....once many of them approached ripeness, then we get the big storms, they develop cracks in the skin..which invites rot and bugs. Some good ideas in this thread - thanks! I may give Ambrosia a shot down here in Raleigh. __________________ Craig

January 8, 2009	#7
PNW_D Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Coast, Canada Posts: 961	Tania has some interesting ones ......... http://t-garden.homeip.net/mwiki/ind...vernaya_Papaya __________________ D.

January 9, 2009	#8
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,294	Two years ago all my melons were very flavorful. Last year most were on the bland side. The difference? Rains seemed to come at the right times and quit at the right time. During the growing season two years ago it rained about an inch per week and when it did not, I supplemented by watering (overhead sprinkling). Then the rain and the watering stopped for about the final three weeks of the growing season while the melons finished ripening. Last year it rained about every third or fourth day during the final month. Some tasted pretty good while others were a bit bland. I have not grown many varieties of muskmelon, but I like Pride of Wisconsin for its sweetness. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.

January 8, 2009	#2
montanamato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montana Posts: 1,038	Oka.... Jeanne Read the blurb on SSE internet catalog.

January 8, 2009	#3
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	Did you have lots of rain shortly before the melons ripened ?? If yes, that could partly explain the lack of flavor. I haven't grown cantelopes for several years, but we do grow a lot of watermelons. This year we had a particularly goofy summer. Floods when planting. Then hardly a drop for the next 2.5 months. Not all that hot either. Not cool, just not hot. We did have lots of Watermelons, but many of them weren't as large as in years past from the same varieties. BUT because things were so dry, they were very sweet this year.

January 8, 2009	#5
natural Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North GA Posts: 530	I think it is variety and then water. Too much water during ripening will dilute the flavor in our experience. My favorite, sweetest melons have been: Cantaloupe - Ambrosia French melon - savor honeydew - super dew canary- san juan spanish - sugar nut galia - arava Burpee has crème de la creme. This was very sweet and productive. We really hold back the water as the ripening begins. We also grow on black plastic to help prevent the excessive water from rains. We drip irrigate when needed. Bill

January 9, 2009	#9
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	I grew an orange-fleshed crenshaw called Crane or Eel River last year which ripened a little later, but has to be the sweetest melon ever. I raise melons on plastic and drip irrigate. Last year was a pretty good year. I set out Hales, Rocky Ford and Ambrosia, but that Crane was the best. I saved a bunch of seed and may not grow anything else this summer.

January 10, 2009	#10
happyscientist Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: West Virginia Posts: 21	I have been going through my seed catalogs trying to figure out what to order. I have narrowed it down, but I can't decide, and I was hoping for opinions from people with a little more melon experince than me. I am in northern West Virginia where we have fairly cool (seldom above 90 degrees), wet summers, in case that makes a difference. Also, I have never grown melons, so I probably shouldn't start with a difficult variety. Here is my short list: Jenny Lind, Petit Gris de Rennes, Noir de Carmes, and Charentais. Thanks for any input.

January 11, 2009	#13
montanamato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montana Posts: 1,038	Craig...I have lots of Oka seed if you want to try...It is outstanding and everyone who has tried it is blown away...I do not like melons, but have seen this one rated great by friends and family.... We do have lots of dry heat and long days of full sun, however the nights are colder than melons should like...It is good sized, but I think production was average....For the best production I grow a short season hybrid Fastbreak and it pumps out many smaller melons.... Jeanne

January 14, 2009	#14
spyfferoni Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 675	I grew melons for the first time last year. My watermelons didn't fair as well as my Chantereis and musket melon. I actually got the musket melon seeds from an aunt of a friend. They have been in their family for about 50 years. Her grandfather grew and sold the melons (called cantelope here). Every year they save seeds from the largest, sweetest, and juiciest melons. They were phenomenal. They are the oblong variety with the dark green ribbing. the Chantereis melons were good. They tasted similar to musket melon only crisper. They weren't as productive as the musket melons were. I grew them on black plastic and they did great. My watermelons just had grass clippings for mulch and did not fair nearly as well. I read in Amy Goldman's book that melons like black plastic, I will try watermelons again with black plastic. I am anxious to try some new varieties. I recommend checking our Amy Goldman's book, "Melon's for the Passionate Grower." Luckily our library had it. Tyffanie