identifying a pink oxheart tastier than BW Sudduth's strain

kerns125 · July 29, 2015

My 96 year-old grandfather, whom I call "Pappy" (he's in western Maryland right on the edge of west virginia and has the accent to prove it), gave me tomato seeds this year, telling me only that it was a "German pink" and that it was my late grandmother's favorite. I started my seeds on Valentine's Day.

The plant looked like it was half-dead in May and June, but lo and behold it was the very first full-sized tomato that ripened for me, the first week of June here in Alexandria Virginia (my cherries started ripening a week beforehand in late May). They were small, beefsteak-looking fruits with ZERO seeds. The darn things were the most delcious tomatoes I'd ever had. Sweet and tart simultaneously, and really full-flavored.

Thereafter the plant started growing oxheart-shaped fruit, and that's when I realized the "half-dead" plant was really just the "wispy" foliage characteristic of oxhearts (which I've never grown until now). The next 2 tomatoes also had zero seeds for me to save, and I started panicking. Luckily I finally got one this week with seeds and saved them stat! Tonight I had one of these pink oxhearts next to my BW Sudduth for a comparison taste test, and I couldn't believe it, but the oxheart definitely had more flavor and was a touch sweeter.

I called my grandfather to get more info. He said he called them "giant pinks" (no idea why, as they are small) and his brother used to called them "peaked pinks." He said they all had different names for the tomato and he doesn't know what the official strain is called, but he got the seeds from his late wife's (my grandmother's) brother's wife's brother (ha!) who lived in Centerville Pennsylvania. Given my grandfather's age, I suspect this is a long-propagated family heirloom from at least the early 1900s if not the 1800s. I've been calling it "Pappy's pink."

Does anyone have any idea how I could identify this strain, if it already exists with a formal name? I'm just curious about it. I plan to keep calling it "Pappy's pink" but I'd love to know its history.

Jen

heirloomtomaguy · July 29, 2015

Your tomato sounds delicious. Better than Brandywine Sudduth, now this is a tomato i have to try! Can you post some pics?

**carolyn137** · July 29, 2015

I started to post to you but hit a wrong key and lost the post so I'll try it again.

No, I don't think you'll ever be able to ID what you have as to IDING it with a known variety.Once a variety has had a name, and not all do, not a chance,

You mentioned it being called German Pink, I know one by that name but I doubt it;s what you have since it;s a pink beefsteak and one of the varieties that started SSE back in 1975

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/German_Pink

Tania lists lots of hearts and I could go through her list and pick out the pink ones I know of but that wouldn't help either.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/C...haped_Tomatoes

Do you know of any German ancestry in the family and I ask b'c between the late 1800's and about 1920 or so, there were many Germans who immigrated the the US and brought seeds with them. Most of the hearts had no names at all and were just considered family heirlooms but when they shared them with others, then others gave them names, hopefully including at least the original family name as part of the new name,

Here's one example:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...aret%27s_Heart

Hope the above helps,

Carolyn

Cole_Robbie · July 29, 2015

I know we're all just guessing, but it reminds me of Anna Maria's Heart, which is from Germany by way of Russia: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...aria%27s_Heart

**carolyn137** · July 30, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I know we're all just guessing, but it reminds me of Anna Maria's Heart, which is from Germany by way of Russia: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...aria%27s_Heart

If you read that link again you'll see that it did not originate in Germany, as you noted ,it came from Russia with Scott's wife's family. Just sayin since we've been talking about varieties that originated in Germany/

And yes I knew Scott, got the seeds from him and introduced it by being the first to SSE list it and spread the seeds around for trial here and there to several seed vendors.

it is a good one, no doubt, but not a German one.

Carolyn

Cole_Robbie · July 31, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

If you read that link again you'll see that it did not originate in Germany, as you noted ,it came from Russia

Sorry, typo. Words backwards sometimes I do.

kerns125 · July 30, 2015

Thank you all! My family does indeed have a good proportion of German ancestry, Carolyn, although when I asked my grandfather about the "German pinks" he gave me, he said that's not what they were called (then I got the other names from him). So unclear where they came from or if the German reference was a mistake. Maybe I'll try to pursue contact info for living relatives that have descended from my Pappy's brother in-law to see if anyone knows more. It really does sound like Anna Maria's Heart! Maybe next year I'll grow that next to mine and see how similar they are. Actually I'll read the link Carolyn sent with all the pink hearts and pick what sounds closest.

Unfortunately the wet season/fungus has decimated my garden, so the plants is basically dead already (along with 50% of my others). So I haven't taken photos, unfortunately. I will save more seeds from my remaining tomatoes and next year will definitely document more detail about the plant. I suppose for now I'll call it Pappy Kerns's Pink after my grandfather.

Happy to send some seeds of anyone is interested in trying them out.

Jen

heirloomtomaguy · July 30, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerns125

Thank you all! My family does indeed have a good proportion of German ancestry, Carolyn, although when I asked my grandfather about the "German pinks" he gave me, he said that's not what they were called (then I got the other names from him). So unclear where they came from or if the German reference was a mistake. Maybe I'll try to pursue contact info for living relatives that have descended from my Pappy's brother in-law to see if anyone knows more. It really does sound like Anna Maria's Heart! Maybe next year I'll grow that next to mine and see how similar they are. Actually I'll read the link Carolyn sent with all the pink hearts and pick what sounds closest.

Unfortunately the wet season/fungus has decimated my garden, so the plants is basically dead already (along with 50% of my others). So I haven't taken photos, unfortunately. I will save more seeds from my remaining tomatoes and next year will definitely document more detail about the plant. I suppose for now I'll call it Pappy Kerns's Pink after my grandfather.

Happy to send some seeds of anyone is interested in trying them out.

Jen

Pm sent thanks Jen

**carolyn137** · July 30, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerns125

Thank you all! My family does indeed have a good proportion of German ancestry, Carolyn, although when I asked my grandfather about the "German pinks" he gave me, he said that's not what they were called (then I got the other names from him). So unclear where they came from or if the German reference was a mistake. Maybe I'll try to pursue contact info for living relatives that have descended from my Pappy's brother in-law to see if anyone knows more. It really does sound like Anna Maria's Heart! Maybe next year I'll grow that next to mine and see how similar they are. Actually I'll read the link Carolyn sent with all the pink hearts and pick what sounds closest.

Unfortunately the wet season/fungus has decimated my garden, so the plants is basically dead already (along with 50% of my others). So I haven't taken photos, unfortunately. I will save more seeds from my remaining tomatoes and next year will definitely document more detail about the plant. I suppose for now I'll call it Pappy Kerns's Pink after my grandfather.

Happy to send some seeds of anyone is interested in trying them out.

Jen

Jen, I also would like some seeds that I can place with my seed producers for grow out next summer which will get those seeds out there so many can enjoy them, and also keep the name you suggested.

I'd also be glad to thank you by sending you some hearts you probably haven't grown that will be in my now very late 2015 seed offer.

I'll PM you with my address and then we can discuss what you might want in return from me.

Carolyn

JLJ_ · July 30, 2015

Jen, I sent you a PM earlier about your offer of seeds if you have enough, but two things you mentioned that might be interesting for you to ask about, if making inquiries about this family heirloom from other family members, might be:

1) Is the shape pattern you saw -- initial tomatoes beefsteakish shape, followed by oxheart shape in later tomatoes -- typical of this tomato?

2) Is the "seedless to few seeds" property typical of this tomato.

Not suggesting that those things would give any sort of positive ID of its ancestry, just that it would be interesting to know if these are typically seen properties of this tomato.

tam91 · July 30, 2015

I sent you a pm also - perhaps you'd like to try the new one that I introduced too.

KC.Sun · July 30, 2015

I sent you a pm too-

kerns125 · July 31, 2015

I snapped a photo of my last 3 ripe tomatoes and attached it here. Looks like even a later one is more blunt-shaped, so although most were hearts, not all were perfect hearts.

I have asked family members if anyone can connect me with the line of the family from whom Pappy got his seeds originally to try to get more info. But I am secretly hoping no one can so that it can remain "Pappy Kerns's Pink" forever -- there's nothing like giving your 96 year-old grandfather a permanent mark on the world with his own eponymous heirloom tomato.

Jen

JLJ_ · August 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerns125

. . . I have asked family members if anyone can connect me with the line of the family from whom Pappy got his seeds originally to try to get more info. But I am secretly hoping no one can so that it can remain "Pappy Kerns's Pink" forever -- there's nothing like giving your 96 year-old grandfather a permanent mark on the world with his own eponymous heirloom tomato.

Jen

If it's been grown by your family anywhere near as long as you think it has, I think you're justified in naming it Pappy Kern's Pink . . . or whatever you decide upon . . . no matter what tomatoes you find might have contributed to its origin. In that many tomato generations, there would have almost certainly been some accidental crosses and/or change due to selection by your family members, that would make it a unique tomato, even if it did resemble some others.

Cole_Robbie · July 31, 2015

The top fruit is from a fused blossom; it's two hearts stuck together. That's why it looks more blunt, if that is the one you were talking about.

July 29, 2015	#1
kerns125 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: 22301 Posts: 92	identifying a pink oxheart tastier than BW Sudduth's strain My 96 year-old grandfather, whom I call "Pappy" (he's in western Maryland right on the edge of west virginia and has the accent to prove it), gave me tomato seeds this year, telling me only that it was a "German pink" and that it was my late grandmother's favorite. I started my seeds on Valentine's Day. The plant looked like it was half-dead in May and June, but lo and behold it was the very first full-sized tomato that ripened for me, the first week of June here in Alexandria Virginia (my cherries started ripening a week beforehand in late May). They were small, beefsteak-looking fruits with ZERO seeds. The darn things were the most delcious tomatoes I'd ever had. Sweet and tart simultaneously, and really full-flavored. Thereafter the plant started growing oxheart-shaped fruit, and that's when I realized the "half-dead" plant was really just the "wispy" foliage characteristic of oxhearts (which I've never grown until now). The next 2 tomatoes also had zero seeds for me to save, and I started panicking. Luckily I finally got one this week with seeds and saved them stat! Tonight I had one of these pink oxhearts next to my BW Sudduth for a comparison taste test, and I couldn't believe it, but the oxheart definitely had more flavor and was a touch sweeter. I called my grandfather to get more info. He said he called them "giant pinks" (no idea why, as they are small) and his brother used to called them "peaked pinks." He said they all had different names for the tomato and he doesn't know what the official strain is called, but he got the seeds from his late wife's (my grandmother's) brother's wife's brother (ha!) who lived in Centerville Pennsylvania. Given my grandfather's age, I suspect this is a long-propagated family heirloom from at least the early 1900s if not the 1800s. I've been calling it "Pappy's pink." Does anyone have any idea how I could identify this strain, if it already exists with a formal name? I'm just curious about it. I plan to keep calling it "Pappy's pink" but I'd love to know its history. Jen

July 29, 2015	#2
heirloomtomaguy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: glendora ca Posts: 2,560	Your tomato sounds delicious. Better than Brandywine Sudduth, now this is a tomato i have to try! Can you post some pics? __________________ “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

July 29, 2015	#3
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I started to post to you but hit a wrong key and lost the post so I'll try it again. No, I don't think you'll ever be able to ID what you have as to IDING it with a known variety.Once a variety has had a name, and not all do, not a chance, You mentioned it being called German Pink, I know one by that name but I doubt it;s what you have since it;s a pink beefsteak and one of the varieties that started SSE back in 1975 http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/German_Pink Tania lists lots of hearts and I could go through her list and pick out the pink ones I know of but that wouldn't help either. http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/C...haped_Tomatoes Do you know of any German ancestry in the family and I ask b'c between the late 1800's and about 1920 or so, there were many Germans who immigrated the the US and brought seeds with them. Most of the hearts had no names at all and were just considered family heirlooms but when they shared them with others, then others gave them names, hopefully including at least the original family name as part of the new name, Here's one example: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...aret%27s_Heart Hope the above helps, Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

July 30, 2015	#11
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	I sent you a pm also - perhaps you'd like to try the new one that I introduced too. __________________ Tracy

July 29, 2015	#4
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I know we're all just guessing, but it reminds me of Anna Maria's Heart, which is from Germany by way of Russia: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...aria%27s_Heart

July 30, 2015	#10
JLJ_ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 759	Jen, I sent you a PM earlier about your offer of seeds if you have enough, but two things you mentioned that might be interesting for you to ask about, if making inquiries about this family heirloom from other family members, might be: 1) Is the shape pattern you saw -- initial tomatoes beefsteakish shape, followed by oxheart shape in later tomatoes -- typical of this tomato? 2) Is the "seedless to few seeds" property typical of this tomato. Not suggesting that those things would give any sort of positive ID of its ancestry, just that it would be interesting to know if these are typically seen properties of this tomato.

July 30, 2015	#12
KC.Sun Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: 6a Posts: 322	I sent you a pm too-

July 31, 2015	#15
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	The top fruit is from a fused blossom; it's two hearts stuck together. That's why it looks more blunt, if that is the one you were talking about.