Exactly who WAS Dr. Wyche?

[lakelady]

Last year I bought a packet of Dr. Wyche's yellow and for some reason never grew it. So, in doing a little research this year, I've heard several stories and wonder which is true about Wyche! (sorry, couldn't resist).

Some say he owned a circus
Some say he lived near a zoo
Some say he was an American Indian

Okay, I believe the heritage, but did he own a circus, or did he live near a zoo?

Just curious

[cornbreadlouie]

Theres an interestimg thread on gardenweb about Dr. Wyche I found becUse this thread got me interested. Someone claiming to be a relative even posted in it

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by lakelady

Last year I bought a packet of Dr. Wyche's yellow and for some reason never grew it. So, in doing a little research this year, I've heard several stories and wonder which is true about Wyche! (sorry, couldn't resist).

Some say he owned a circus
Some say he lived near a zoo
Some say he was an American Indian

Okay, I believe the heritage, but did he own a circus, or did he live near a zoo?

Just curious

http://www.seedsavers.org/Details.aspx?itemNo=975

Yes, he owned a circus and yes, he used the zoo doo from the circus animals for his tomatoes and others things he grew and yes, he was of Cherokee descent.

He donated to SSE many vegetable varieties that were also Cherokee ones as well. There was an article about him in one of the non-Yearbook SSE publications quite a few years ago as well.

And yes, cornbread Louie is correct, there was a thread at GW quite a while ago and yes, a relative did show up.

I don't have time to track down that GW thread right now, so either of you could do it if you wanted to although it seems that cornbread is a GW member now as am I, but most of us who used to post at GW came to Tville when it first started in Jan of 2006. A few of us still post there from time to time, but it just isn't the same as it used to be.

Actually there's a thread around here somewhere where many of us recalled some of the more spectacular fights at GW, ah, memories.
I can't remember any other info about Dr. Wyche that was posted in that GW thread, but there may be other items, I just can't remember.

[carolyn137]

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...381810373.html

Above is the thread from GW that both cornbread louie and I remembered, from 2004, and there's lots of interesting info there as well as the comments of a relative of Dr. Wyche making comments about him and his contributions.

I hope Jeaninne sees this thread b/c of her interest in Native American varieties, as posted in the GEneral Discussion area.

[Jeannine Anne]

Hi Carolyn, yep I am right there..I already read the posting on the other forum yesterday and found it quite fascinating.So it would seem I could grow Dr Wyche tomato and Cherokee Purple..am I right..I know Craig named the latter but I think it is historically accurate.

It was interesting that he also had a couple of other veggies which |I am now searching SSE lists for.

It seems I am leaning very strongly to Cherokee unless I do a general American Indian plot.. but I think I will be nation specific and do a differnt one another year.

Sorry..busting your thread here,,btu very interesting..thank you

XX Jeannine

[lakelady]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Hi Carolyn, yep I am right there..I already read the posting on the other forum yesterday and found it quite fascinating.So it would seem I could grow Dr Wyche tomato and Cherokee Purple..am I right..I know Craig named the latter but I think it is historically accurate.

It was interesting that he also had a couple of other veggies which |I am now searching SSE lists for.

It seems I am leaning very strongly to Cherokee unless I do a general American Indian plot.. but I think I will be nation specific and do a differnt one another year.

Sorry..busting your thread here,,btu very interesting..thank you

XX Jeannine

oh not at all Jeannine! I had tried to search but all I kept coming up with was his varieties and I was really curious as to who he was. I was pretty sure the zoo doo part was correct (lol) but wasn't sure if he owned the circus, or lived near the zoo. Don't ask me why that was important to me...I guess my curiosity gets the best of me!

Thanks for the replies and I'll go off and look at those links

P.S. I'm really not a "nosey" person, but the history about Dr. Wyche had me interested to learn more...plus with a title like "Dr. Wyche" I'd wondered if he was really a circus owner and was it a phD, or MD, etc. You know how that goes.... hehe...

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Hi Carolyn, yep I am right there..I already read the posting on the other forum yesterday and found it quite fascinating.So it would seem I could grow Dr Wyche tomato and Cherokee Purple..am I right..I know Craig named the latter but I think it is historically accurate.

It was interesting that he also had a couple of other veggies which |I am now searching SSE lists for.

It seems I am leaning very strongly to Cherokee unless I do a general American Indian plot.. but I think I will be nation specific and do a differnt one another year.

Sorry..busting your thread here,,btu very interesting..thank you

XX Jeannine

Craig named it Cherokee Purple, actually he named it Cherokee Brick Red at first and that name is still in the YEarbooks, alas, b'c John Green who gave him the seeds said so from a woman John got the seeds from, and also said it was over 100 years old.

We know it isn't 100 years old b'c of some Genetic allele studies that were done and John was never able to find that woman again to ask more about the Cherokee association.

The variety Indian Stripe was also called Indian Zebra , and when I was sent the seeds by a friend who knew the Bensons in Arkansas, she told me either name would be OK, so I chose Indian Stripe. The history should be in your SSE YEarbook and possibly at Tania's page, I ASAP sent seeds of Indian Stripe to Craig and he agreed with me that it looked like CP as sourced to TN. However, the fruits were more pale and there were more to the truss.

I did a lot of research on the Cherokee presence in Arkansas and found that yes, they were there and groups of them split off from the tribes moving west and stayed there permanently. At GW there was a woman who posted in the Heirloom Forum who was of Cherokee descent and what she had to say also helped me suggegst that Indian Stripe was about the same as CP although I added that being grown in genetic isolation, thus the slight differences.

Only DNA sequencing can confirm the relatedness.

You might also consider Black Mexican corn, which was a variety renamed and was originally grown by the Iroquios and is not from MExico. I grew it and other varieties that dated to the period around 1850 when I was doing a rerpoduction garden for the Shaker Society near the Albany, NY airport b'c that's where Mother Ann Lee first built her large community

I looked at the link Zana gave you and sure enough there was the Manyel that I'd posted about in your other thread and there';s no evidence whatsoever that it was grown by Any Indian Nation, the word Manyel not even being known in any language known to those at the Indian Museum for US tribes which I think is in Washington D.C. And most of the tomatoes listed there were wild types spread by Spanish missionaries and not know to be Indian grown either.

[Jeannine Anne]

Hi Carolyn, my fingers are almost worn out with googling..but iut beats housework!!

Manyel has turned up several times even on an American Indian site but the description was vague.. I have Cherokee Purple seeds and I think Indian Stripe too so will stick to those .

I have several corns to choose from Ch Long Eared Popcorn seems to be OK for eating fresh, drying for flour or popping.

I really want to find the Cherokee Butterbean which is actually a true runner which perchance I am building upm a collection of anyway.. I found it in the 2007 yearbook but I don't have 08 and 09 and it is not in the 2010 one sadly. Still searching the net.

Other beans are fine, choicesd there.

Thank you again for the help.

very interesting post, thank you for starting it Lakelady.

XX Jeannine

[carolyn137]

Craig named it Cherokee Purple, actually he named it Cherokee Brick Red at first and that name is still in the YEarbooks, alas, b'c John Green who gave him the seeds said so from a woman John got the seeds from, and also said it was over 100 years old.

******

It didn't take more than 5 min for a good friend of mine to remind me that it was Cherokee Chocolate that Craig first named Cherokee Brick Red.

When I have perfect memory I'll announce that in a thread here, and thanks so much N.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Hi Carolyn, my fingers are almost worn out with googling..but iut beats housework!!

Manyel has turned up several times even on an American Indian site but the description was vague.. I have Cherokee Purple seeds and I think Indian Stripe too so will stick to those .

I have several corns to choose from Ch Long Eared Popcorn seems to be OK for eating fresh, drying for flour or popping.

I really want to find the Cherokee Butterbean which is actually a true runner which perchance I am building upm a collection of anyway.. I found it in the 2007 yearbook but I don't have 08 and 09 and it is not in the 2010 one sadly. Still searching the net.

Other beans are fine, choicesd there.

Thank you again for the help.

very interesting post, thank you for starting it Lakelady.

XX Jeannine

It only matters if a variety is listed in the current Yearbook, 2011 for now, b/c seeds cannot be requested from older Yearbooks.

[Jeannine Anne]

I know, but I was hoping if it was in the 2010 it stood a good chance of being in the 2012 XX Jeannine

[rsg2001]

I enjoyed this thread, and I had actually found the GW thread Carolyn posted on my own around a month ago. I am growing 1 Dr. Wyche Yellow tomato plant for the first time and not only is it humongous, it has alot of little tomatoes on it, around 30 at this juncture, even with removing several with BER (it's still early on). I received the seeds from a Tomatoville member named Dutch, along with Missouri Pink Love Apple and a few other oldies I had never grown before. I put the descriptions of each of the varieties I'm growing this year in my little 'tomato diary' which helps me remember what I liked and how/whether they grow.

[Direct Sunlight]

His tomatillo plants grow fast. I planted one about 3 1/2 weeks ago because a hornworm almost stripped one of my 2 plants bare before I got him. Well, now it's a foot tall and already has several flowers on it. The one that lost most of its leaves btw is now sprawling all over the place, and setting fruit.