Any blue tomato cross linkages to dwarf plants

[Stepheninky]

I was wondering if there were any linkage issues with the blues and dwarf crosses. I know for an example there is a linkage where you can not have grow out and get a fuzzy peach type fruit on a dwarf plant. Was wondering if anyone has noticed any linkage issues with the blue tomato lines.

[Tom Wagner]

I was wondering if there were any linkage issues with the blues and dwarf crosses?

I noticed this question earlier and then realized no one answered it. Am I the only one who has crossed the blue genes into dwarf type tomatoes?

Yes, I have done this....not sure how many times...but one cross between a dwarf non ripening (100% rin) gold fleshed dwarf was crossed to a half blue hybrid. The F-2 seed from one 2" pot had a firm ripe, normal sized vine with red fruit. About 1 out of 4 F-2 seedlings will be dwarf and if the blue was expressed in the hybrid...then a few of the dwarf plants will also be blue to sl blue. I may not have enough seed to get a dwarf gold with blue stems/leaves and blue skin.....but I will plant what few I have to check out the odds.

I know for an example there is a linkage where you can not have grow out and get a fuzzy peach type fruit on a dwarf plant. Was wondering if anyone has noticed any linkage issues with the blue tomato lines.

Well....I have no idea where you would get the idea of combining dwarf and fuzzy and not getting a full expression of both. My strain of wo is fully expressed in the homozygous whether it is in a dwarf or not. The many years that I have had woolly (fuzzy) genes in my program don't match what the Rick Tomato Gene fellas say about it.

Maybe I should list in my tomato seed catalog some dwarf types in all the splendor that these little guys have. I usually don't push dwarf types because the greenhouse cooperators definitively ask for only indeterminate vines. And dwarf types get smothered out by the big vines in the field.

If my webmaster gets over his fatigue of posting my varieties on my newworldcrops.com website...I may sometime get around to listing some interesting dwarfs. I have tons of them.

__________________

[Stepheninky]

Thanks for the reply, on both the blue and the fuzzy skin. Think it was some 1975 or 1980's study I had read (hard to remember) so its good know both are doable. Looking forward to seeing more of those crosses listed on your new site. Fatigued or not you are both are doing a great job, already received my first order from you guys. Looking forward to growing out some of your new stuff.

[DKelly]

Please list some dwarf types on your website Tom. I am fascinated by these little guys. When all the farmland is apartment building we will need these!
-d

[Tom Wagner]

My webmaster friend Rob and I were talking about adding new varieties with the disclaimer new..on such and such a date. The addition to the website is laborious and I don't have the time to post them...I will make some dwarf lines available as I add descriptions and send them over to Rob to post. I will be making updates all year long. I may even send lines that carry the dwarf genes and will segregate one to four in the progeny. Is that something you would like D?

Tom Wagner
Tomatoes and Potatoes are my biggest specialty...so go to newworldcrops.com for updates weekly.

[DKelly]

Yes I would like that. It is easy to select the dwarf plants at whatever ratio they may be as they show themselves within a week or so of sprouting. Yes I am also intrested in the potatoes, have only grown once or twice before but as they are so close to tomatoes I should be able to make them grow good.
Thanks for reply.

[DKelly]

Also Tom while I have a slight bit of your attention... Would it matter which side the pollen came from or vice versa in crossing a dwarf with a non dwarf if your goal was in fact to select for a dwarf? sounds funny but a real question none the less.
-d

[Tom Wagner]

Not actually, but I prefer that the maternal line is dwarf.
Something in the direction of the cross...maternal dwarf x paternal non-dwarf makes for a thicker stem than the reciprocal maternal non-dwarf x paternal dwarf.

It is so striking that I almost never do the crosses otherwise. If you can't see the thick stem in the hybrid you wonder if the cross took!

In the cross rin dwarf gold x Skykomish...the hybrid is indeterminate with thick stems all the way up the the ceiling of the greenhouse. Studier to tie and holds the fruit better. Skykomish has a thick stem anyway but the hybrid is like a tree.

A goodly part of my dwarf lines are determinate, I just have not liked indeterminate dwarf lines. They grow too tall. Need more support and fall over in the field.

At one time I thought that the best hybrids should be made from dwarf mother plants to indeterminate fathers. To protect the hybrid from being reproduced I had dwarf clones that were full of recessives that made them worthless and at the same time had indeterminates that also that were chocked full of other bad recessives. Cross the two together and the hybrid was perfect with no influence of the recessives since the dominant gene presided royally. But if you would save seed from these hybrids...one would have seedlings with all kinds of bad combinations of recessives. Fun and games.

I wonder if I should market some hybrids like that....? Never had but...hmmm....it might be interesting to folks to see just how miserable the F-2 seedlings could be. Mouse ear is one of those I still have. No time to list the other genes.


Tom

[Fusion_power]

I have seed of a micro dwarf that has mouse ear like leaves. Very odd looking.

DarJones

[Tom Wagner]

http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Images/Me-LA3552-ii-.jpg shows the mouse-ear genes at work on a tomato plant.

I had this type crossed into woolly and dwarf and green flesh. Now I should cross to Seattle's Woolly Blue Mammoth. Imagine....blue stems and leaves, tiny twisted leaves full of fuzzy hairs, blue fruits on a dwarf plant. No one would want that, would they?

I may have to pull seed from my inventoried 20 year old seed to do that. I should grow out some mouse-ears just to keep my versions alive and extant.

Tom

[DKelly]

you'll be on the cusp of new fashion Tom. I personally would like to see the stangest most contorted tomato out there....they have a competition for the worlds ugliest dog, why not the ugliest tomato!

[loeb]

Originally Posted by Tom Wagner

I had this type crossed into woolly and dwarf and green flesh. Now I should cross to Seattle's Woolly Blue Mammoth. Imagine....blue stems and leaves, tiny twisted leaves full of fuzzy hairs, blue fruits on a dwarf plant. No one would want that, would they?

I would love that I was thinking all day about crossing 'velvet red' [i just received seeds] to some dwarf plant to ged 'hairy' or 'velvet' dwarf I don't know why but this year I'm really fascinated with dwarfs and cherry tomatoes. I never prefered big fruits, but now i'm really into the micro-scale;D And i'm just beginning in that hobby.. but if i'm going to do some crosses, i want them to be fun so much as i can get I can always buy 'normal' tomatoes to eat

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by loeb

I would love that I was thinking all day about crossing 'velvet red' [i just received seeds] to some dwarf plant to ged 'hairy' or 'velvet' dwarf I don't know why but this year I'm really fascinated with dwarfs and cherry tomatoes. I never prefered big fruits, but now i'm really into the micro-scale;D And i'm just beginning in that hobby.. but if i'm going to do some crosses, i want them to be fun so much as i can get I can always buy 'normal' tomatoes to eat

Velvet Red is a beautiful plant with finely dissected leaves that have angora foliage. When the sun shines on the plants they just sparkle.

The fruits are nothing special and red. So if you're interested in the foliage, fine, but as far as fruit taste goes, I'd use something else. Some do say the taste is sweet, but that hasn't been my experience. You'll just have to see for yourself.

Velvet Red is the proper name but it was also referred to as Angora Super Sweet by someone, but that's the same as Velvet Red.

[loeb]

Thank you for your opinion I don't have anything else that is even a bit hairy or velvety.. here in Poland tomatoes are mostly practical A fancy leaf is potato leaf one. I just looked at that Woolly Blue Mammoth - it's really impressing I have a vision of making a little one resembling Cousin It from Adams family;D And using it to make a whole family Ok, so nice vision but reality is different :/ I have only Velver Red, so flavour must wait.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by loeb

Thank you for your opinion I don't have anything else that is even a bit hairy or velvety.. here in Poland tomatoes are mostly practical A fancy leaf is potato leaf one. I just looked at that Woolly Blue Mammoth - it's really impressing I have a vision of making a little one resembling Cousin It from Adams family;D And using it to make a whole family Ok, so nice vision but reality is different :/ I have only Velver Red, so flavour must wait.

All I did was to give my taste opinion and also said that others found the fruits to be sweet and tasty.

So before you discard Velvet Red as a possibility for both angora foliage and tasty fruits, give it a try and see what you think.

There are other angora foliaged varieties as well, but the foliage of Red Velvet I think is something special b'c of the narrow leaves that are so highly dissecrted, meaning they have lots of leaf points on the leaf edges, well, I'm not sure I know how to explain it.

You'll see when you grow it.