Margaret Curtain

LenaBeanNZ · September 22, 2009

I am looking for information on a tomato called Margaret Curtain. I purchased the seeds from www.koanga.org.nz they offer very little information, and they seem to be overloaded with work because they don't respond to my emails. This is what it says on their website:

"Another tomato from Henry’s collection. This is a large beefsteak, with the “black’ tomato colouring. It looks very like Black Krim but bigger if anything, with a green shoulder it is absolutely delicious, and I note that in the tomato research trials done by Mark Christensen, these coloured tomatoes come out very high in the nutritional stakes. Black Krim when grown from imported seed does very badly in the North. This one did very well here in the Eastern Bay but it did not like the intense heat we had this summer here."

I have a bunch of vigorous young seedlings going, they are RL.

Has anyone grown this before, or know anything about it?

Thanks in advance,
Lena

**carolyn137** · September 22, 2009

Lena, it's not listed in the SSE YEarbook and the only Google link was to the place where you bought it.

I did go through the tomato list there and I had lots of questions about many of them as to descriptions, pictures, or lack there of.

Whoever Henry Harrigton is or was, it appears that he probably did, or should have, known the correct variety names for some or most of them, but renamed them.

The one named Yellow Brandywine sure doesn't look like YB at all, and the ones named generic oxheart sure don't look like heart shaped tomatoes to me. And I had lots of other questions about other varieties as well.

I wish I could be of more help, but I can't, and I really do get the impression that there's been lots and lots of renaming going on . They really need to update their info on quite a few varieties as to original origin as I see it, or maybe they just haven't taken the time to research that information.

I just don't know.

What kind of information do you expect them to give you? it seems that all they know is that the variety came from the Henry Harrington collection. Perhaps you're looking for basic info on plant habit, fruit size, lead form, etc., but they don't list that for any of them, well maybe some, I just can't remember.

They say that a person named Mark does their trials for them so I wonder why he doesn't record info that could be included for each variety.

LenaBeanNZ · September 22, 2009

Thank you for taking the time to look into it Carolyn. I don't really know what I expected to find out, maybe just to hear from someone else who had grown it, or some proof that it is an actual variety, not just a renamed Black Krim like you (and the description) suggest.

The Northland conditions where the institute gardens are based are terrible for tomato growing, very high humidity means blight and disease are a huge problem, I'm surprised they are getting tomatoes at all. I have grown Yellow Brandywine in my garden further south, and it does not look like their picture, much bigger and flatter.

I have grown Black Krim successfully for a number of years, it does very well in our climate. It will be interesting to see how Margaret Curtain compares.

If there is a bit of renaming going on, could it be because the seeds they carry have adapted to the difficult local conditions? How long would a line need to be grown and selectively saved before a name change is justified?

**carolyn137** · September 23, 2009

If there is a bit of renaming going on, could it be because the seeds they carry have adapted to the difficult local conditions? How long would a line need to be grown and selectively saved before a name change is justified?

****

First, I don't believe that tomatoes adapt.

Adaptation with other crops such as the well known one of Ethiopian Wheat and some Asian rices are known as landraces and take thousands of years to adapt as has been shown by DNA studies.

Even if a tomato variety did show adaptation that shouldn't allow for renamaing a variety IMO, b'c it's still the same variety with all the traits that would allow it be IDed as the original variety.

Just my view of the situation.

September 22, 2009	#1
LenaBeanNZ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 114	Margaret Curtain I am looking for information on a tomato called Margaret Curtain. I purchased the seeds from www.koanga.org.nz they offer very little information, and they seem to be overloaded with work because they don't respond to my emails. This is what it says on their website: "Another tomato from Henry’s collection. This is a large beefsteak, with the “black’ tomato colouring. It looks very like Black Krim but bigger if anything, with a green shoulder it is absolutely delicious, and I note that in the tomato research trials done by Mark Christensen, these coloured tomatoes come out very high in the nutritional stakes. Black Krim when grown from imported seed does very badly in the North. This one did very well here in the Eastern Bay but it did not like the intense heat we had this summer here." I have a bunch of vigorous young seedlings going, they are RL. Has anyone grown this before, or know anything about it? Thanks in advance, Lena

September 22, 2009	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Lena, it's not listed in the SSE YEarbook and the only Google link was to the place where you bought it. I did go through the tomato list there and I had lots of questions about many of them as to descriptions, pictures, or lack there of. Whoever Henry Harrigton is or was, it appears that he probably did, or should have, known the correct variety names for some or most of them, but renamed them. The one named Yellow Brandywine sure doesn't look like YB at all, and the ones named generic oxheart sure don't look like heart shaped tomatoes to me. And I had lots of other questions about other varieties as well. I wish I could be of more help, but I can't, and I really do get the impression that there's been lots and lots of renaming going on . They really need to update their info on quite a few varieties as to original origin as I see it, or maybe they just haven't taken the time to research that information. I just don't know. What kind of information do you expect them to give you? it seems that all they know is that the variety came from the Henry Harrington collection. Perhaps you're looking for basic info on plant habit, fruit size, lead form, etc., but they don't list that for any of them, well maybe some, I just can't remember. They say that a person named Mark does their trials for them so I wonder why he doesn't record info that could be included for each variety. __________________ Carolyn

September 23, 2009	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	If there is a bit of renaming going on, could it be because the seeds they carry have adapted to the difficult local conditions? How long would a line need to be grown and selectively saved before a name change is justified? **** First, I don't believe that tomatoes adapt. Adaptation with other crops such as the well known one of Ethiopian Wheat and some Asian rices are known as landraces and take thousands of years to adapt as has been shown by DNA studies. Even if a tomato variety did show adaptation that shouldn't allow for renamaing a variety IMO, b'c it's still the same variety with all the traits that would allow it be IDed as the original variety. Just my view of the situation. __________________ Carolyn