Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.
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#1 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 38
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I know some of you have been growing out Brandy Boy to F5 and beyond in the past. I'm wondering if anyone could update us on this. Has anyone successfully dehybridized Brandy Boy? If so, would you be willing to share seeds?
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#2 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 1,420
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I have seen these type of comments before and I am wondering why people would want to dehybridize a hybrid?
Aren't the characteristics of the hybrid what is desirable in the first place? Why would you want to mess with that and lose some of those characteristics that made is a good hybrid to start with. |
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#3 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 38
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brownrexx,
The issue is getting a stable plant that you can harvest seeds from so you don't have to buy the seeds from Burpee forever. There is nothing special about a hybrid necessarily. The issue is that hybrids aren't stable varieties. It takes a few generations of selecting for seeds that are true to the parent before you get a stable variety. |
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#4 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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Mischka has tried and got really weird results.
Looking at the name, Brandywine is pink and PL,and most assumed the other parent was Better Boy F1 or Big Boy F1,both red and RL,red color is dominant to pink and yet Brandy Boy F1 is pink and PL, and for it to be stable one needs PL to be homozygous recessive, so one would assume that both parent were PL,which they are not, apparently. And therein is the mystery and challenge. ![]() Carolyn
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Carolyn |
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#5 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 38
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Carolyn,
I imagine the "Boy" in the name is just a marketing thing. Burpee seems fond of naming plants "Boy." Take Jersey Boy, for example; it is a supposedly a cross between Brandywine and Rutgers. There is no "Boy" in its parentage. So, Mischka was unsuccessful in getting a stable version of Brandy Boy that was (nearly) true to the original? |
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#6 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=34258 Carolyn
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Carolyn |
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#7 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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#8 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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#9 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E
Posts: 5,041
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!' |
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#10 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,984
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I gave it up at F4 when the majority of my plants showed no resistance to such common tomato disorders as fusarium and verticillium wilts. No reason to grow tomatoes that can't meet certain minimum standards.
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#11 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 1,420
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I e-mailed Burpee and asked what was crossed with Brandywine to make their Brandy Boy and this is the answer I got from one of their horticulturists:
The other parent of Brandy Boy are not a named variety just a number. It is only used for breeding. |
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#12 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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Carolyn
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Carolyn |
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#13 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
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About Brandy Boy and claims made;
If you didn't read all the links I gave especially the one about the genetics of Brandy Boy,here it is again. And note what year the following link was from. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=39977 Carolyn
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#14 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunol, CA
Posts: 2,723
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The parents of hybrids are trade secrets, and represent significant developmental costs. One should not expect a seed company to divulge parental lines and basically give away hard earned secrets. In no other business, are people almost expected to give the public this type of information.
I am currently working on a Red Bumblebee F1, and last year I tested 54 different hybrids I made, in hopes that one of them would represent the combining of two parents in a highly synergistic way. In other words, I made 54 crosses looking for one particularly excellent combination of parents. 3 of those crosses performed very well with regard to both fruit and plant traits, without any evident shortcomings. Those 3 hybrids are being tested more extensively this year. One of the crosses might perform at a level high enough for general release, but we continue to make additional crosses to add to our Red Bumblebee list (and we also continue to develop new "red bumblebee" parental lines). Once I release a Red Bumblebee F1, I am assuming that it will be dehybridized by people who don't want to pay for hybrid seed. If the dehybridized lines are equivalent to the hybrid, then I have not done my job (which is to find unique F1 synergy that clearly eclipses any of my Red Bumblebee breeding lines or any dehybridized lines). The value of my work will be judged based on whether or not people continue to buy hybrid seed. If they do, it will indicate that my Red Bumblebee hybrid is indeed special. People continue to by hybrids like Sungold for exactly this reason (dehybridized lines are NOT equal to Sungold). Last edited by Fred Hempel; July 2, 2017 at 11:01 AM. |
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#15 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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Fred wrote
(The parents of hybrids are trade secrets,) Not always Fred,and you and I posted at the same time and if you look at my post above yours and a few above mine, I think You'll see what I mean. Burpee used to subcontract out to Petoseed and tell them what they wanted and unfortunately sometimes they wanted one that was well known variety,such as Tye Dye. Or one like Fourth of July,etc. It's been just a few years that Burpee regrouped and got out from where George Ball had put them and now have a couple of new breeders at their place in PA,so we shall see what comes next. Carolyn
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