1908 Stokes Standard Seeds tomato section - for the Bonny Best discussion...

[nctomatoman]

Cover says "Walter P Stokes of the late firm of Johnson and Stokes (so clearly today's Stokes seeds had its start with Johnson and Stokes...)

Bonny Best is the cover tomato and shows medium sized, round fruit (4 oz or so) - I will try to get a digital pic loaded here later today.

Bonny Best is listed on a page called Novelties and Specialties for 1908. The list of attributes: very early, enormously prolific, strong vine, plenty of foliage, uniform size, beautiful scarlet, splendid shape for slicing. States that it is a full 10 days to two weeks earlier than Chalks Early Jewel.

Here are the tomatoes they list:

Bonny Best (see above)
Sparks' Earliana
Chalk's Early Jewel ("this fine tomato originated in Montgomery County, PA")
Santa Rosa (called a mammoth sort, 5-6 inches across - suspect related to Diener and Santa Clara Canner types, originated in CA)
Livingston's Hummer (red version of Livingston's Globe, essentially)
Superb Salad
New Stone
Matchless
Great Brinton's Best
Success
Lorillard
Brandywine (described as "bright red, prolific" - so again, more evidence for what we know of today as Red Brandywine, Landis Valley).
Ponderosa
Ignotum
Early Paragon
Livingston's Perfection
Livingston's Favorite
June Pink (introduced in 1906 by Johnson and Stokes - they describe it as a pink fruited Earliana)
Giant fruited Acme (they claim to have crossed and recrossed it to get the fruit size increased!)
Stokes' Pink Florida Special
Duke of York (they describe as a pink)
Livingston's Globe
Trucker's Favorite (which I think Maule often refers to as Imperial)
Livingston's Beauty
Early Acme
Dwarf Champion
Early Market Champion
Golden Queen
Yellow Plum
Clusterosa Yellow Egg
Red Cherry

Certainly a few surprises in that list. 31 varieties, with a good selection of pinks, and only a very few yellows.

But it does answer the Bonny Best question, and sheds a bit more light on Brandywine.

Pics to follow later.

[carolyn137]

Craig, did you see post #11 in the other thread where I posted the name and location of the person who selected Bonny Best from Chalks Early Jewel as well as the fact that John Baer did select what became known as the variety John Baer and that was released in 1915.

And I wrote a bit more. All from our fave 1939 Michgan Bulletin, a treasure trove of information as well as the many synonyms used for different varieties which can be confusing.

I've seen many folks who thought that Bonnie Plant Farms in where?, Alabama, I forgot to go look bred the variety Bonny Best. But no way but easily confused unless one looks at the spellings of Bonny vs, Bonnie.

[nctomatoman]

Yes, I knew you were quoting the wonderful MI State bulletin! Pretty cool when we can actually string some of these stories together accurately. AND...it also explains why Stokes was selling Bonny Best right into the 1970s - since it was their exclusive!

Interesting thing is that I've yet to actually grow out either Bonny Best or John Baer - I did try Chalk's, but it was from MO BR E and didn't really grow to the description.

[Stepheninky]

Thanks I am always learning more from both of you especially the facts behind the lore of tomato history.

I will be posting a free give away for some Bonny Best seed in the near future. As I stated my Mom loves them and I am ordered to plant some every year LOL. Not sure why more people do not grow them. nctomatoman if you would like some to grow let me know and I will reserve some for you before I make the open offer. I have tested them in the paper towel method and also threw 5 seed into a planter on my deck and 5 plants sprouted so germ rate is pretty good.

[eyolf]

Craig, I grew BB or JB every year until I discovered Andy Pollock's reselection of BB...its a little better performer yet.

I also grew BB and JB next to 3 sources of Chalks EJ in 2004. Two of the Chalks were very similar to BB/JB, except more variable and seemed to radial crack quite badly. The third source was likely crossed with something as fruit size tended small and decidely egg-shaped.

As an aside, I'm growing out seed from one John Baer from 2006; it was clear-skinned/pink! I didn't truly believe it, but had too many other experiments to grow it out again until this year...and it has yeilded a whole row of Pink children. I knew about Geshwien's purple/pink BB...Now I guess there's a pink JB out and about too!

Actually, its nothing to get excited about: fruit size avg about the same, but appears more variable and less-well-behaved like Chalks'.
Anybody else seen a purple from this family?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by eyolf

Craig, I grew BB or JB every year until I discovered Andy Pollock's reselection of BB...its a little better performer yet.

I also grew BB and JB next to 3 sources of Chalks EJ in 2004. Two of the Chalks were very similar to BB/JB, except more variable and seemed to radial crack quite badly. The third source was likely crossed with something as fruit size tended small and decidely egg-shaped.

As an aside, I'm growing out seed from one John Baer from 2006; it was clear-skinned/pink! I didn't truly believe it, but had too many other experiments to grow it out again until this year...and it has yeilded a whole row of Pink children. I knew about Geshwien's purple/pink BB...Now I guess there's a pink JB out and about too!

Actually, its nothing to get excited about: fruit size avg about the same, but appears more variable and less-well-behaved like Chalks'.
Anybody else seen a purple from this family?

I've grown Bonny Best and also Geswein's Purple Bonny Best which I got out of the USDA when one could still do that, NSL 27489.

It doesn't surprise me at all that there would be pink and red versions of both Bonny Best and John Baer since the spontaneous mutation of the epidermis from yellow ( red) to clear ( pink) isn't all that uncommon.

For many years I maintained several varieties in both their red and pink forms but only distributed seeds for what the original was.

I'd noted in my book that I had a pink form of Coustralee, which is red, and in the current Sandhill catalog Glenn also found that pink from seeds I'd sent him years ago for the original red and listed the pink separately and noted that I had said there could be a pink.

Edited to note that I think it was Craig who got it out and we shared seeds. The blurb I was looking at mentioned only me. He got stuff out, I got stuff out and we shared seeds for almost all that either of us got out. I just checked an earlier Yearbook and it was out of the USDA in 1994 and we both listed it in the 1995 Yearbook.

[Wi-sunflower]

I see they mention Golden Queen.

I have been growing a "Golden Queen" for years that I got the original seed from the current Stokes company. i list it as "Golden Queen - Stokes" as I've seen some of the posts about there being more than 1 version of Golden Queen -- the one you got from the seed bank and something else.

Any idea what I have ??

i'm pretty sure it's just a reasonably large beefsteak type with not pink on the blosson end, but I will have to check out the pink part when we find this year's plants.

Stokes hasn't listed it for many years.

Carol

[nctomatoman]

Hey Carol. The keys are growth habit and color. The "real" Golden Queen (as introduced by Livingston) is a pale, bright yellow, oblate, not all that large (varies in size on the plant), and very vigorously indeterminate. Some of the fruit get a pinkish blush on the blossom end when very ripe.

The "other", later Golden Queen seems to be described as more of a determinant type or semi-indeterminate growth, larger rounder fruit, and more of a light orange color, not bright yellow, with no blush.

[Wi-sunflower]

I'll try to find them as I make out my list for Tomato Day.

But from your discription and my memory I would saw I have the original. Definately oblate tho I'm not sure about the blush. And the plants always seemed to be big / indeterminate.

Thanks,
Carol

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

I'll try to find them as I make out my list for Tomato Day.

But from your discription and my memory I would saw I have the original. Definately oblate tho I'm not sure about the blush. And the plants always seemed to be big / indeterminate.

Thanks,
Carol

Carol, just to add to what Craig wrote, yes, either Craig or myself, I can't remember which one of us got Golden Queen from the USDA in 1994 and we both listed it in the 1994 SSE Yearbook.

And yes, it closely matches the original Livingston description and if one reads the listings of others clearly there has been a version of Golden Queen that has not matched the original description that had been circulating for quite a while.

The one we got out in 1994 is referred to at most places as Golden Queen (USDA strain)

Actually it was a fruit that Livingston got at a farmers market, grew it out, made a selection or two, I can't remember without going back and reading his book, and then in 1882 releasing it as Golden Queen.

[eyolf]

AW, Carolyn, ya burst my bubble! I thought my pink mutation on a John Baer was an interesting conversation piece!

Actually, I'm not all that impressed with it; overall quality is a little lower than regular JB. More odd-shaped or small fruits, and like my experience with Chalk's, seems to crack (and decay) a little more easily. Can't tell any difference in taste, but since growing Pollock, I'm addicted to the way Pollock pumps out many many beautiful clean tomatoes.

Speaking of taste, the tomato selection for dinner last night was Djena Lee, and a tomato from a free giveaway determinate plant.
You can guess which I liked better.

Why would anyone grow insipid, tasteless tomates? I'm ashamed I wasted the space.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by eyolf

AW, Carolyn, ya burst my bubble! I thought my pink mutation on a John Baer was an interesting conversation piece!

Actually, I'm not all that impressed with it; overall quality is a little lower than regular JB. More odd-shaped or small fruits, and like my experience with Chalk's, seems to crack (and decay) a little more easily. Can't tell any difference in taste, but since growing Pollock, I'm addicted to the way Pollock pumps out many many beautiful clean tomatoes.

Speaking of taste, the tomato selection for dinner last night was Djena Lee, and a tomato from a free giveaway determinate plant.
You can guess which I liked better.

Why would anyone grow insipid, tasteless tomates? I'm ashamed I wasted the space.

Why would you be ashamed of wasting the space?

last time I knew I had to grow a variety before I could conclude that it was insipid and tasteless.

[eyolf]

Hello Carolyn. Hope you're well.

I guess it isn't a big deal; I have 94 acres here in MN; enough space. But I kinda knew they wouldn't be as tasty as Djena Lee, or any of several others right now.

It was a free giveaway, come along with other goods at a nearby greenhouse this spring. We all know the general type: early or midseason Det, pretty fruits, but not great flavor...as most would expect.

We'll be canning them this weekend. For some reason, even so-so tomatoes are pretty good out of a quart jar in the winter..."summer in a jar"!

[Cornflower]

Jumping back to the original post,

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Sparks' Earliana

Does the catalog give any description of this? I am growing an Earliana that I got from an SSE seed rack; I am curious to know if this is the same tomato.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Cornflower

Jumping back to the original post,


Does the catalog give any description of this? I am growing an Earliana that I got from an SSE seed rack; I am curious to know if this is the same tomato.

The blurb in the SSE catalog says that Geirge Sparks, of NJ was the first to mention Earliana in 1900. And I've seen that Johnson and Stokes was the first to offer it.

But...... there are at least 50 synonyms for Earliana and similar varieties ranging from Alice Roosevelt, which I've grown, to Penn State Earliana, to Lange's Earliana to Cracker Jack to Moneymaker to Early Earliana and on and on and on.

As my source says" the forgoing names constitute only a partial list under which this variety and other similar early varieties are sold amd indicate their popularity. They also indicate the extent to which seedsmen are prone to use descriptive adjectives. "

That is, the seed business back then was very competitive and seed companies changed the names of varieties to indicate they had something special, something unique.

In the various yearbooks differetly named Earliana's have been listed and SSE itself lists one called Earliana, Sparks Improved, seed source MO BR E, who is someone that Craig and I both know.

So perhaps the seeds SSE is offering were those they got from Edmund many many years ago.