Crosses with wispy leafed types

[frogsleap farm]

Any experience out there in crossing normal (or PL) with wispy leafed types? Since not all plants w/ heart shaped fruit are wispy leafed, it suggests the genes are independent, but linked. Any info?

[nctomatoman]

Again, the Dwarf project is collecting interesting data on these - we've used several wispy leaf types - Orange Russian 117, Purple Russian, Brad's Black Heart and Anna Banana Russian - in crosses. Check the threads for Nosey, Porky, Dopey and Lazy for further info - at work, so no time to provide more info at the moment. Vince and Linda have worked the most with them, and I am sure have interesting observations on how the wispy gene carries through.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by frogsleap farm

Any experience out there in crossing normal (or PL) with wispy leafed types? Since not all plants w/ heart shaped fruit are wispy leafed, it suggests the genes are independent, but linked. Any info?

True that not all hearts have wispy leaves at least as I as I define them. And I've done no crosses so can't answer your question.

But I wanted to share with you that I'm not the only one who finds that the viability of seeds of many heart varieties is considerably less than those of non-hearts.

And I and several of us have asked the question about possible gene linkage between seed viability and heart shaped varieties.

Not what you asked, but I thought I'd just throw in another possible linkage possibility with hearts.

[gflynn]

I crossed Prue and Marianna's Peace. Prue is regular leaf but wispy. Marianna's Peace is Potato leafed. The F3's included a small minority that were both Potato leafed and Wispy.

It turned about to be a nice one for that matter.

[travis]

I'm growing one very wispy leafed vine this year called Wessel's Purple Pride which the person sending it to me said is a cross of Cherokee Purple x Green Sausage. Is Green Sausage a wispy leaf type?

[Tom Wagner]

Green Sausage, aka Green Sleeves, is indeed a wispy leaf, aka narrow leaf tomato.

I have lots of new varieties stable for potato leaf and narrow leaf. Some of them are combinations of Vintage Wine, aka Brandy Stripe and Speckled Roman and/or Casady's Folly.

I find the lines to be interesting to look at and they make great marker plants in the field. More importantly, I use them for making hybrids that show a limited amount of the narrow leaf trait.

Tom Wagner

[frogsleap farm]

thanks for the feedback. I'm planning summer crosses, and thought it would be good to know what I'm in for. Last night I struck out on a Google search to answer the question, but Tom's "narrow leaf" reference prompted me to try a different query and ... success. Here's a reference: http://www.rafiqulkhan.com/publicati...t_Genetics.pdf

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by frogsleap farm

thanks for the feedback. I'm planning summer crosses, and thought it would be good to know what I'm in for. Last night I struck out on a Google search to answer the question, but Tom's "narrow leaf" reference prompted me to try a different query and ... success. Here's a reference: http://www.rafiqulkhan.com/publicati...t_Genetics.pdf

Some of the best basic work on tomato genetics was done in the 20's and 30's and I'm glad you found that article b'c with every passing year I go to a link I had and it's gone.

The one I really miss is the one where they assayed the Ca++ level in tissues from plants that had BER fruits and found there was plenty of Ca++ in the tissues and they concluded that the problem with BER wasn't root uptake, rather maldistribution of Ca++ within the vasculature of the plant which could lead to internal BER or external BER, the former not being seen that often, but I've seen it several times.

But I digress.

Above I said I wasn't going to define wispy but they defined it exactly as I do which is narrow leaves with , I say highly disected leaf margins but they say serrations, basically the same thing as I see it.

But I am confused by the discussion of Wt, the wilty gene.

When I've researched that befre I've found that it doesn't refer to a plant looking wilty, or drooping, whatever you want to call it, rather, that a plant that does or does not have the wilty gene determines how rapidly it recovers from lack of water when watered.

[frogsleap farm]

Yeah, I'm a little confused also. The authors describe two independent traits, narrow leaf and wilty, which together seem to define the "wispy" phenotype. It was also hard for me to reconcile this with a consistent pattern in the various dwarf project wispy x normal cross results (F1/F2). If narrow leaf, wilty and fruit shape are indeed independent, it will make for an interesting breeding project.

[gflynn]

Dr. Carolyn,

Prue is definitly wilty by trait yet I see no problem with the way it grows and thrives. It seems just fine with it's wilty self :-)

The characteristic does seem to have been passed down in a cross. I am looking at my "Emily" tomato every day and I am amazed at how wilty yet healthy it looks. Also, there is no amount of water that will change this.
I have one drip irrigated and the other isn't and they look the same all the time.

Greg

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by gflynn

Dr. Carolyn,

Prue is definitly wilty by trait yet I see no problem with the way it grows and thrives. It seems just fine with it's wilty self :-)

The characteristic does seem to have been passed down in a cross. I am looking at my "Emily" tomato every day and I am amazed at how wilty yet healthy it looks. Also, there is no amount of water that will change this.
I have one drip irrigated and the other isn't and they look the same all the time.

Greg

Greg, I know the variety Prue very well, actually I think I was the first person that Tom G, with whom this variety originated, sent seeds to and I offered it several of my seed offers at GW as did Tom and also listed it in the SSE YEarbook many years ago. And for sure it does look wilty.

But my point above is that it's not the Wt gene being discussed in that article that's responsible for the " wilty" nature of many varieties I've grown. Rather, the Wt gene as I know it is a gene that determines how quickly a plant recovers from lack of water when given water.

And Frogsleap said he was also confused by the use of the Wt gene in that context as well.

[Wi-sunflower]

possible gene linkage between seed viability and heart shaped varieties.

That's good to know. I saved seed for several hearts last year. Most did OK on the gremination test, but 1, Oregon Star, was low on both batches I have. one batch less than 50% the other about 60%. That one must be especially suseptable to low germ as there was a crop failure of that variety last year and people are looking for any seeds at all this year.

Some of the other info in this thread is also enlighening for me as some of those varieties sure do grow differently from other "normal" varieties.

Carol

[gflynn]

Dr. Carolyn,

I see your point. Has another wilty gene been isolated that would describe Prue?

Greg

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by gflynn

Dr. Carolyn,

I see your point. Has another wilty gene been isolated that would describe Prue?

Greg

Greg, pretty please call me Carolyn, I've been retired now for 11 years and always sign off as Carolyn.

I don't know if there is more than one wilty gene known and would have to check the PGRC and/or the Cornell Tomato Genome website, but the only wilty gene I know of is the one I described as to recovery after being deprived of water, which would be independent of leaf form or foliage habit as I see it.

[dice]

The question that occurs to me is whether there is a "droopy"
gene, which would be associated with the growth habit of
cultivars like Prue?