The Wilts!

[beeman]

New to the forum, joined as I'm sick to death every year watching my plants die from the wilts. Have tried everything in the old books, so am now looking for an answer and hopeful you experts can help.
My garden suffers with the wilts every year, since I added two truck loads of a triple mix about 5 years ago. It was spread very thoroughly over the whole garden, so no matter where I move the patch to, I get the wilts.
I have just discovered Compost Tea, Actinovate and Myke, too late for this year as the plants are wilting again.
My questions. Are the results from these promising? I did find a thread on Actinovate but could not find any conclusions! More discussion, please.
I have tried buying VFNT seeds but still get wilts. Isn't this resistance supposed to help prevent wilting?
I would appreciate some discussion of my problems, it hurts to watch your plants go down.

[Fert1]

I started growing in containers for this reason. I've had a good bit of success with container gardening, so I thought I'd mention it to you as an alternative. My plants in containers bear earlier and heavier than any I ever put in the ground. This year's are starting to fade now though.

[dice]

You can test for bacterial wilt: cut off a wilted stem, stick the
end in water. If it has bacterial wilt, the cut end will release
a milky discharge into the water.

Otherwise, if it is not V (verticillium), and it is not F (fusarium),
what is it? Probably early blight, septoria, alternaria, late
blight, or botrytis. Each has different recommended treatments.

Here is a place with pictures and explanations of the various
diseases:
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...omWiltKey.html

[beeman]

Originally Posted by dice

Otherwise, if it is not V (verticillium), and it is not F (fusarium),
what is it? Probably early blight, septoria, alternaria, late
blight, or botrytis. Each has different recommended treatments.

I didn't find the above answer very helpful, so I am re-posting my original question in the hope someone will give me some advice?

I have just discovered Compost Tea, Actinovate and Myke, too late for this year as the plants are wilting again.
My questions. Are the results from these promising? I did find a thread on Actinovate but could not find any conclusions! More discussion, please.
I have tried buying VFNT seeds but still get wilts. Isn't this resistance supposed to help prevent wilting?
I would appreciate some discussion of my problems, it hurts to watch your plants go down

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by beeman

I didn't find the above answer very helpful, so I am re-posting my original question in the hope someone will give me some advice?

I have just discovered Compost Tea, Actinovate and Myke, too late for this year as the plants are wilting again.
My questions. Are the results from these promising? I did find a thread on Actinovate but could not find any conclusions! More discussion, please.
I have tried buying VFNT seeds but still get wilts. Isn't this resistance supposed to help prevent wilting?
I would appreciate some discussion of my problems, it hurts to watch your plants go down

Dice was being helpful, very helpful indeed.

No one can tell you if those products will help until the cause of your problem is identified.

Wilt is a very general term and different diseases, bacterial and fungal and viral, can cause a plant to wilt as can just environmental problems as well.

If your plants have a systemic disease such as Fusarium or Verticillium or Bacterial Wilt, or whatever, then there is no prevention or treatment.

If the problem is a foliage disease, and Dice has mentioned several, then that's a totally different issue, but the foliage disease pathogens don't usually cause wilting.

Buying VFNT or similar hybrids may not help at all depending on what the true cause of your wilting is, and in any case they aren't totally resistant, just tolerant.

Just a few questions please?

What is the triple mix that you referred to above and where did it come from as in nursery, friend, whatever?

What is your gardening zone in Canada?

How big are you plants when they start wilting and what color are the leaves when they do, meaning do the leaves turn brown first or are the leaves still green when they wilt. And what happens after the wilting? Do the plants die or is wilting just during the day and they perk up at night?

Anything you can share with us about your plants in terms of how this starts and what the progression is would be a big help, b'c unless and until a diagnosis can be made no one can tell you anything about the products you mentioned in terms of their possible efficacy.

I almost forgot. Do you see any spots on the leaves or stems or fruits?

[beeman]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Just a few questions please?
What is the triple mix that you referred to above and where did it come from as in nursery, friend, whatever?
What is your gardening zone in Canada?
How big are you plants when they start wilting and what color are the leaves when they do, meaning do the leaves turn brown first or are the leaves still green when they wilt. And what happens after the wilting? Do the plants die or is wilting just during the day and they perk up at night?
Anything you can share with us about your plants in terms of how this starts and what the progression is would be a big help, b'c unless and until a diagnosis can be made no one can tell you anything about the products you mentioned in terms of their possible efficacy.
I almost forgot. Do you see any spots on the leaves or stems or fruits?

Thank you. This is more what I was hoping for!
The triple mix came from a local nursery, and looking back at the end of that year there were problems with anything grown in it. Even grass failed to grow in it and in the following spring the grass started, then just faded away! Other areas I noticed problems, Raspberries which slowed all year, brassicas which suffered slow growth, and maters which had all sorts of problems. Prior to this stuff the garden grew but didn't really flourish, so I thought soil ammendment. Wrong...!.
Zone 5a.
This year I planted 17, today 10 of them have problems. On some Roma types the leaves turned brown, then wilted upwards till the whole plant was dead. Others the leaves are green and healthy looking, in the sun the whole plant wilts. Recovers overnight, then wilts during the day.
I pulled out one plant today, a Roma and examined the stem which was hollow half way up!
Another one I cut a longitudinal slash up the stem to find a brown centre. I tried the Bacterial wilt test, nothing.
Two Romas have curled leaves, green, but upward curl.
An Early girl, over 5 feet tall, green all the way suddenly has started wilting during the day.
I do have two plants, one in the greenhouse and another in a container on the deck, both Early girls, growing well and producing large maters, both have suffered with a leaf spotting, a yellow area between the leaf veins. I took it to be a fertilizer shortage so fed Fish Emulsion. Now they're green to the top, but one wilts during the day.One of them has bacterial speck on the fruit shoulders.
Now you begin to see the problems. I'm at my wits end and don't know where to turn. Have tried rotation, have tried leaving an area fallow for 3 years, even tried an area where nothing has been grow before. Apart from moving house I don't know what else I can try apart from Tea, Actinovate and Myke.
I really would appreciate some help, even if it's just a pat on the head and 'There, there, it will get better'.

[rsg2001]

It sounds like you have a bunch of problems. Carolyn asked what the triple mix consisted of - do you still have a package with the ingredients?

The ones with the brown centers probably have fusarium wilt.

The ones that have green leaves that wilt during the day and perk up at night probably have bacterial wilt.

For these two issues, both systemic diseases, you need to pull the plants out. Unfortunately, the pathogen that causes both of those diseases tends to stay in the soil for several years. It's hard to know whether it was in the mix or if the pathogen just blew in. But once the plants have these there is nothing you can do but pull the plants out. I have had both of these. It's awful, and you have my sympathies.

For the fusarium, I found some improvement by using RootGuard, which is a drench that can be used when you first put the transplants in. Carolyn has written that actually this product isn't effective for fusarium, so it's possible that I was either just lucky or my plants possibly had something else.

For the Romas, that sounds like early blight, which you could likely improve by spraying a fungicide, like Serenade (which is a biologic), or Daconil, a mild pesticide.

Where did you get the plants? Did you grow them from seed yourself or buy them from a garden center? This year there was a problem with some garden center sourced tomatoes with late blight - but it doesn't sound like you have late blight.

My recommendation: next year grow your crop in containers. I grow both in the ground and in containers on my deck -- the latter produce a lot better. I use a sterile mix from Gardener's Supply Company - I change it out every other year unless a plant gets sick.

[Structure]

You really need a stronger diagnosis, and as others have said, you may need to separate out several issues. HOWEVER, I've had some interesting results this year fighting Fusarium wilt. I posted a question on another forum about it and got some excellent advice. The result so far is that my in-ground tomatoes are doing wonderful. Best year ever. Oddly enough, the first tomatoes to go down are in one of my SWCs! They have classic fusarium wilt. Browning tips, hollow slightly off oder stems. About done for already.

I'm using Actinovate, mulching with black landscape cloth, avoiding root damage, watering often/even, and going light on fertilizer. I expect to have fusarium show up on the in-ground plants sooner or later, but it sure looks good so far...

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Structure

I'm using Actinovate, mulching with black landscape cloth, avoiding root damage, watering often/even, and going light on fertilizer. I expect to have fusarium show up on the in-ground plants sooner or later, but it sure looks good so far...

Great, this is what I need.
How about 'more' information on Fusarium that you found, or perhaps the link where you found it, please, pretty please!
You say you are using Actinovate. Could you please tell us what you're doing?

I agree I need a stronger diagnosis, but the problems I seem to have are endless and a bit overwhelming, so I have to start at the begining again.

RSG2001 The triple mix was from the nursery, two truckloads of the stuff, so heaven only knows what was in it.I did complain about it later, but got shrugged off. Last time through their door.
All the plants were from seed this year, grown in our own new greenhouse. Seeds supplied by <http://www.tomatogrowers.com/index.html> in Florida, selected for VFFN.
I could start containers for next year, but soon it'll be the $100 mater, which is really not an option for a retiree.

More comments, please.

[Barbee]

5 years is a long time to be suffering with this. Have you had a soil sample done?

[dice]

The best thing for it is probably to keep adding compost
and/or leaf mold each year. (Horse manure is good, too.)
Building up a population of beneficial organisms in the soil
is the single best defense against soil diseases. Chemical
fumigation will sometimes solve problems like this short
term, but they tend to come back in a short time, because
there are no natural controls left in the soil after that.

Beyond that, the Actinovate is probably worth a try. One poster
here dusts it onto the roots of his seedlings when transplanting,
then mixes some with water and gives them a soil drench with
it for good measure. He also mixes it up with other stuff and
sprays it on the plants, to help control foliage diseases. It
seems kind of expensive, but if it works where nothing else did,
then it was not so expensive after all. One treatment at
transplant time is all that you need for Actinovate in the soil.
It is a biological organism, it will grow on its own with the root
system. It needs a minimum soil temperature of around 47F/8C
to be effective.

One year I had plants die of some wilt, probably verticillium,
in one row. I brought in a few pickup loads of horse manure
in the fall, just for soil improvement, and in the process of
finding places to put it until spring, I happened to pile it a
foot deep on top of that row. The rain washed through it for
six months. In spring, I used most of the horse manure to fill
a new raised bed, leaving about 3-4" of it on top of that row,
which I turned under before planting. The next year, none of
the plants in that row were affected by whatever wilt had killed
some plants there the year before.

No guarantee, but I would not hesitate to try that in your
situation: cover everything with a foot of horse manure in
fall and let the winter rains wash through it, then turn it
under in spring and plant in it.

[beeman]

Originally Posted by dice

No guarantee, but I would not hesitate to try that in your
situation: cover everything with a foot of horse manure in
fall and let the winter rains wash through it, then turn it
under in spring and plant in it.

Sounds like good advice, I will try it on part of the garden.
To sum up. Actinovate must be used at the start of the season, at transplant time. Later in the year is a waste of effort?
How about Mycorrihizae products? As in Myke and Mycogrow? As these are also root fungus, then it should also be used at transplant time?

[dice]

To sum up. Actinovate must be used at the start of the season, at transplant time. Later in the year is a waste of effort?

Right, once is enough. It grows with the roots.

How about Mycorrihizae products? As in Myke and Mycogrow? As these are also root fungus, then it should also be used at transplant time?

Yes.

[stormymater]

get a soil analysis from your ag extension service - maybe pH (I am living this one from purchased topsoil/compost/poultry manure that was supposedly pH 6.5 but tested out at 7.6, 7.7 & 8! Ammonium nitrate & hot finely ground pine mulch are sorting it out in the short term.

[beeman]

I have finally tied dowm some of my problems, and it does not look too encouraging.
So far we have identified, Bacterial wilt, Early Blight, Verticilium wilt and last but not least Root knot nematodes. How about that for a mouthful of trouble?
I plan for next year. Cover the whole area in 2 inches of compost, also the same depth in well rotted sawdust which has to be 30 years old.
Seeds. I will disinfect all seeds, buying some recommended here on this forum, and grow my own plants. No more nurseries.
Compost Tea on a two weekly cycle. Actinovate and mycorrihizae at planting time.
Have I missed anything? I'm determined to get a full crop of plants and tomatoes for the first time ever, next year. Ever the eternal optimist!!