Consequences of starting TOO early?

[geol]

I've heard that seedlings left in cells to long can become stunted.
what are the consequences of stunting a plant? I've seen conflicting reports regarding overall production ...etc. For the home gardener, it's often difficult to make any significant comparision. Do determinate and indeterminate plants react differently?

[MtnMaters]

I couldn't say anything on the statistical or scientific end of things, but I know that when I am trying to get a head-start on Spring, I am continually transplanting seedlings to bigger containers, from cells to 8 oz cups, to bigger (20 oz...then 32-40 oz) cups, to plastic "aromafresh" coffee cans...then to the ground. Always mindful that I must provide them with the nutrition they need when they are in this condition.... but not so much that I burn them up. By the time they hit the ground, I have usually had to "stake" them in the coffee cans with twigs, so it's like finally letting a racehorse out of the gate.... in my optomistic theory anyway :wink:

[sliphorn]

MtnMaters, by the time your plants are in the coffee cans, approximately how many weeks old are they and how tall? Just curious.

[Fusion_power]

I've actually answered this in my own garden. You can keep an indeterminate tomato plant in a cell up to 4 weeks beyond its prime planting time. It requires careful adjustment of water, temperature, and nutrients. If done properly, the plant can perform just as well as a plant that was never suppressed.

Note that I use the term "suppressed" rather than "stunted".

To truly stunt a plant, put it in too small a container and give it all the water, nutrients, and sunshine it wants. The plant will prematurely enter the reproductive stage by trying to set a blossom cluster. Once it reaches that point, the plant will be incapable of reaching its full production potential. The key here is to prevent the plant from making that blossom cluster.

Fusion

[sliphorn]

Fusion_power, what size "cell" are you talking 'bout? 2"x2" or larger? I ask because I plan on using 16 ounce styrofoam drinking cups which seem to me they'd be plenty large enough to handle 8 weeks of growth. Thanks.........

[Fusion_power]

Slip, I use an 11X22 tray with 48 cells. That works out to about a 2X2 cell size per plant. Please note that even with excellent care, a plant can't stay in a cell this size more than 12 weeks. 8 weeks is just about optimum.

Fusion

[sliphorn]

Excellent, Fusion. My 16 oz cups will be plenty big enough.

Thanks..........

[jwr6404]

My pixie peach tomato seeds were started on 1 feb using peat pellets. Today,after all were getting their 2nd set of leaves, I transferred them to 3" jiffy pots using Jiffy mix. I'm rather excited as these are the first tomatos that I had ever gotten to the transplant stage. I know that I will need to again transplant them to an even larger pot. I have several 6" pots for this purpose. How long should I expect to leave these plants in 3" pots and how often should they be fertilized? I expect to place a few in 10 gallon containers o/a 1 May and give the rest of them away to friends. I planted 25 seeds and they all germinated.

[Miss_Mudcat]

Fusion/Anybody,

I started seeds in trays, transplanted to 8 oz. cups about 2 weeks later, then to 16 oz. cups in another 2 weeks. Some of my maters already have blossoms: i.e. Kimberly and Lime Green Salad. IS THAT A BAD THING? Will they be below norm in production because they have blossoms? I've fertilized only once with very weak fish emulsion. They look gorgeous and very healthy.

Lisa

[nctomatoman]

Lisa, they will be fine. I did an experiment a few years ago - because I was delayed in planting, my seedlings were lanky (over a foot tall in some cases) and had blossoms. Rather than keep to the folklore suggestion of removing blossoms, I just planted them as they were. some of those early flowers did set fruit, and the plants caught on quickly and flourished - they yielded as they should have. so, go for it! They will be fine.

[geol]

Here it is! Didn't know if I was lost or somebody had moved the thread.
Thanks to all, for the replies. I also pot-up in an effort to not stunt or even suppress my plants, as Fusion power described. It took me a long time to learn to resist over watering and over fertilizing my seedlings, as they seem to do better with much less of either. Not planting to early, however, still seems to elude me, and from time to time, I find myself with bossoms if not actual tomatos. This brings me back to my original question, - Are determinants more effected than other varieties? Are others immune? Would a stunted cherry only produce millions of tomatos instead of gazillions? Funny that Lisa should mention Kimberly, since thats what started this whole thread. Growing it for the first time this year and just tested my seeds for viability and unable to kill them, even though this is way too early for my location.- I will try to grow on these plants to make my own comparison against a later start this year.
I had been growing tomatos, happily not knowing what I didn't know, for years until my wife decided that I needed a computer, But thats a different story.

[Gimme3]

Geol, you got a lot of great advice, already. Here's another take for consumption...)))

A stunted plant is a stunted plant, is a stunted plant...Period. By that i'm tryin to answer the 3 questions you posed in the latest reply. It dont matter what kinda plant it is...rootbound stunting aint particular about the master it obeys, lineage-wise.

There are 3 conditions posed , 2 by you, Geol, and a 3rd by Lisa.

Theres a very simple way to address condition number 1...Rootbound...simply use translucent plastic cups, adequately drilled for drainage. This allows you to actually monitor, visually...the relative spread , and the yes/no condition of root confinement. If ya use these kinda cups in early pot-ups, its a no-brainer.

Condition number 2...lankiness,leginess...here is where ponderin condition number 1 pays off. If you aint worried about root-boundedness, then let it roll, if you still intend to re-pot it. Or even if you plan to sink that joker in the soil,....soon. Lankiness dont stunt a plant. Lankiness is caused by a lack of adequate light...(once planted deep or laid over in a plantin hole, it will root all over the leg).

RootBound...WILL stunt a young plant, by forcing it into pre-mature sexual reproduction. But another factor to consider, is this...if you are tryin to get the very best roots established, then it's best to re-pot a lanky plant, an its ALWAYS good, to blow a fan across it, and quite a Requirement if lighting is borderline....towards establishing a good fat healthy trunk.

Condition number 3...Blossoms on a transplant yet-to-be.

First off...i Appreciate Craig's input on this. It's somethin i need to really get a fine point pencil out on, if i was ever to debate. And it's also somethin i'm liable to be wrong about. Here's this angle....There aint but 2 reasons, that a potted up plant is gonna bloom, or put out bloom pods.
One reason is Good, the other is Bad. A stressed/stunted plant will do this from sheer will to survive an pro-create.

A healthy plant will also do this, if it's been grown an nurtured properly, and all it is tryin to do, is follow it's natural course.

Therefore...one needs to ponder....which of the 2 situations exist.

In my opinion, removing the blossom buds from a healthy plant, prior to transplant, will do 2 things.
A: instill within it a greater desire to fruit, and B: the simple shock of transplant, is gonna make it put those ambitions on Hold, temporarily. Roots....are mystical, w/regard to what we see, above ground. But they are the KEY...to our enjoyment...)))

A caveot....one's particular length of time , their own growing season, might negate anything i said...)))

Best Wishes, Geol...)))

[WildLife]

Hi
I problem I am experiencing is
the constant taking outside and then inside.
the weather her is good in the day, but chance of frost
at night. At first it was a couple trays, but as they have grown, I have repotted and seperated to where now
I have more than a handfull of trays, boxes, pots,
pans, ect. whew! I put them out late, when temp is @ 50 deg, sometimes that is 8:30-9:00am, then sunsets by
6:00 pm ish and back in, so they are getting a
little leggy, not too much.
I am going to set them out a little earlier maybe 45deg
as low as 40? What do you think?
Will 40 ish temp hurt them?
Wild "Brrrrr" Life

[geol]

Thank you, Gimme3 and others,
That clears up a lot for me, as I've always wondered why some "old" seedlings could still take off, while others were done.
Wildlife - I've had them out early before and it didn't seem to hurt them, but they didn't like it much either. Sat there until things warmed up a bit before they took off was all. That they've been outside is good. Mine were hardened off well, but I still covered them with buckets at night until things were a little warmer.

[Plantersville]

The consequences of starting tooo early is that you plant some in the ground tooo early. I started my seeds in mid-December and planted 30 plants that were 24" tall on Feb 1st.....only because we had not had a day colder than 38 degrees all winter. The following weekend we had temperatures in the 20's....I covered each plant with a 5 gallon bucket but it didnt help. All plants died due to the cold. I should have put lights on them and they may have made it through the night. I'm learning and will do that next year. Now, I'm replanting again this weekend but will put in 150 plants and peppers.
(BTW, the onions loved the cold weather)
Chuck B