tomato types

[mich04]

Hi,
I was just wondering what peoples thoughts were on different tomato varieties I am planning on 1500 plants this year a step up from 200 last year. last year Beafsteak, celebrities and early girls. The early girls were horibble small and not very many. Celebrities were all right but with my BeafSteaks I averaged 20 pounds a plant. I had also grown 30 plants that were labeled California wonders..which were kind of small. This year chosen based off of the information on http://www.tomatogrowers.com/ here is my line up for 2010.

Tomatoes
Champion Hybrid #2429A

Bush Beefsteak #2538A

Celebrity Hybrid #3980A

Oregon Spring #2712A

Peppers
Red Beauty Hybrid #9197A

Camelot Hybrid #9849A

Golden Calwonder #9054A

I plan on growing at least 1200-1500 tomato plants and around 700-800 green pepper plants. I live in midwest illinois so here are my questions

1. Are these good varieties are far as anybody knows?
2. What varieties should I be shooting for for my state?
3. How much market share do your heirlooms make up in your sales?

Thanks ahead of time

[goodwin]

Well, we grow all open-pollinated varieties because we're a small operation on just an acre and a half. Our approach is to select our top strains over several years and then maximize each plant's production. Commercial operations use hybrids because they have been developed for consistent yields under a variety of conditions using industrial farming methods. I'd suggest Jetsetter as one of the best of these. You need to get to market early to get top price. Good luck with your plan, and let us know how it goes.

[mtbigfish]

Mich
With that many plants you have 1 early indeterminate Oregon Spring (small tomato) and 1 Determinate in Celebrity leaving you with 2 varieties that are indeterminate 1slicer and 1 beefsteak

You should look into a few more varieties maybe even an heirloom or OP or two
There are several that are pretty good for Market sales and produce pretty good.
Once your customers taste the difference you can charge a little more also
there is one farmers in So Calif that grows for market 5-6 heirlooms and only 1-2 hybrids. They have been doing this for a few years that is where the customers have migrated - and they do not have competition because they are the only one doing it - they sell from stands at $2.99 a lb and to restaurants and even ship some to different grocery stores who end up selling for $5.99 to $7.99 + per lb
Dennis

[carolyn137]

1. Are these good varieties are far as anybody knows?

They aren't the hybrids I might grow, but see below, but I'm sure most will give you round red fruits that many like for canning, etc.


2. What varieties should I be shooting for for my state?

This, for me , is the most important question. Where are you going to sell the plants as in Farmers Market, from your home, otherwise? You're the best one to know what the folks in your area want to grow, none of us can determine that for you.

I don't know if you're near Oblong, IL but I have one great tomato friend there and I know in his area that heirloom varieties are known and grown. ( see below)


3. How much market share do your heirlooms make up in your sales?

I never sold plants but I did sell fruits in a variety of places and heirloom varieties are greatly desired by many and I think that if you want to have something different from all the other folks that sell hybrid plants, such as roadside stands, farmers Markets, big box stores, that you should consider growing some heirloom plants as well.

I'm curious, but what kind of background do you have in growing tomatoes?

And did you speak to any of the folks in your area about what they might like to see you offer before you bought the seeds you listed above? Doing background research before getting into any kind of business usually helps.

[mtbigfish]

Carolyn and Mich
I wouldn't sell much if that were all I had for So Calif - also it is not easy to get into restaurants and big box stores as you well know Carolyn.
Restaurants expect consistant delivery, your best pickings, an assortment(including cherries,salad and slicers) and they must be deivered "clean" and mostly w/o blemishes They will take some with minor blemeshes if they are going to be cooked , cut up in salasa etc but usually this needs to be agreed upon beforehand not when you show up (lower pricing)

Mich
Of those you listed the beefsteak probably would be the best but why the bush determinate variety when you want a continuous crop (indeterminate)

Do you want hybrids with disease because problems where you plant ? they offer no advantage

Did you sell fruit or plants last year? - makes a difference and what else sold in your area - how?

I think your purpose and how you intend to use the tomatoes/plants will need to be known to better answer your questions
road stand customers , restaurants and big box or grocery stores many times buy different products depending on where you live

Dennis

Ps Oregon Spring is an OP but not that good

[carolyn137]

Dennis, I wasn't suggesting dealing with restaurants, etc, I was was suggesting that Mich really needs to know what his anticipated customers might prefer in terms of his making decisions about what vartieties to raise for sale as plants.

And where those plants would be sold is also to be addressed and might also help determine which varieties might work best.

I do think that the addition of some non-hybrid heirloom varieties might be very useful, but again, Mich needs to know what his customers might want.

And it's perfectly possible that the excitement that some of them might have from being educated and exposed to some heirloom ones could be a big advantage if others are NOT selling such varieties.

Since the most common diseases of tomatoes are the foliage diseases, and since no variety, hybrid or OP has any significant tolerance to those diseases, one can't say that growing hybrid plants is best in terms of disease tolerances,

So let's help Mich with the variety situation first, and then Mich, there are several threads in this Forum that address some excellent ways to market them that you also might want to take a look at.

[mtbigfish]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Dennis, I wasn't suggesting dealing with restaurants, etc, I was was suggesting that Mich really needs to know what his anticipated customers might prefer in terms of his making decisions about what vartieties to raise for sale as plants.

I thought from the post Mich was talking about selling tomatoes when he was discussing yield per plant
I doid think you use to sell at road stands ?? - I was just letting him know how difficult the other is and ie restaurants, grocery stores and wanted your opinion

And where those plants would be sold is also to be addressed and might also help determine which varieties might work best.

If he is selling plants I agree . as I said
Did you sell fruit or plants last year? - makes a difference and what else sold in your area - how?



I do think that the addition of some non-hybrid heirloom varieties might be very useful, but again, Mich needs to know what his customers might want.

I think your purpose and how you intend to use the tomatoes/plants will need to be known to better answer your questions and yes I think some non-hybrid varieties could be beneficial and if you are the only one with them if you can educate the customer you have a competitive edge


And it's perfectly possible that the excitement that some of them might have from being educated and exposed to some heirloom ones could be a big advantage if others are NOT selling such varieties.
AMEN

Since the most common diseases of tomatoes are the foliage diseases, and since no variety, hybrid or OP has any significant tolerance to those diseases, one can't say that growing hybrid plants is best in terms of disease tolerances,
Yes I agree - I was wondering if that was his reason to grow hybrids - don't know if he is educated about tomatoes and why that shouldn't be the reason for growing them

So let's help Mich with the variety situation first, and then Mich, there are several threads in this Forum that address some excellent ways to market them that you also might want to take a look at.

Again Mich needs to be clear about what he is marketing PLANTS or TOMATOES -

me being a programmer analyst I read only what I see - but I am the biggest culprit for writing only half of what I mean

Dennis

[mich04]

carolyn137 I worked for a grocery store chain for 7 years. My favorite department was the produce department where I still get all the produce magazines. It's actually a pretty interesting story, but to make it short I got kind of obsessed with the department, and than also hung out with an ex drill Sargent who got me hooked on keeping house and keeping up on my lawn at my apartment unit . Started gardening growing 20 plants 3 years ago liked it grew 200 and sold to local restaurants and grocery stores last summer, liked it even more and now I want to get into a bigger league.

After further review of the post I plan on selling the tomatoes not the plants. I sold close to 180 pounds a week for 3 weeks with my plants last year, mostly beefsteaks. some early girls (bad) and celebrities (almost as bad). My house is surrounded by bean fields so nice and open and sunny.

I picked determinate because I thought they might be lower maintenance as far as pruning and staking. I am up for anything so if you guys think I should grow indeterminate I will do that. I just have fun watching them grow and monitoring them. I had bush hybrids plants up to the top of my chest last year and I am 6 foot 6 .

As far as heirlooms yes I will probably grow some after review of your writings but I still just want to stick with only around 10 percent of my total sales on those.

Marketing, like I said befor I worked for a small box grocery store in Iowa for 7 years. I LOVE SELLING PRODUCE, making displays, talking to customers, throwing stuff into their carts (if I know them well) I love it love it love it. I solde close to 30,000 dollers a week on of the smaller stores I worked at.

I am very sorry for all of the confusion I need to work on drafting my post and reading them before I post to provide all of them information.

I live near Macomb IL and plan on selling them either in Burlington IA or Macomb IL, My ultimate goal is to sell them to the grocery store Fareway in Iowa, they have 92 stores and ifI produce enough they would be able to ship them from there Burlington store back to their warehouse and distribute them either to their eastern stores or all stores.

[mtbigfish]

Mich

Thanks for answering my questions in the quote of Carolyns where I answered her responses

So you are selling maters NOT PLANTS

So now that we know you are into restaurants and grocery stores you already have the hardest part started (connections)
You should go by your restaurant customers particularly those with a noted chef and take info on some of the tomatoes that some of the big time chefs around the states use - in looking at some of the pictures and different types they will decide for you what to grow.
Grocery stores are looking for holding/market ability, looks and taste (is last but you can give them some with all that)
I worked produce most of my way through high school and college and in the summers worked vacations on my grandparents farms.

Hope you took pictures last year If not some of the seed suppliers will give you permission to use pics of their tomatoes for seeds you bought from them if not someone here may have a site that allows it or can offer our own pics of those you decide on.
The first thread is all about Farmer's Markets so I thought I'd add a thread for selling fruits to chef's and to a retail place and see if others are interested.

Carolyn
I was only making a reference to your knowledge in this area from your post on selling to markets and chefs since that is what I thought Mich was doing and what he has now confirmed that is what he is doing (he should read your post)

"Since I've done both, and for several years running, I'd be glad to describe the plusses and minuses of both ventures and a bit more. As I experienced it."


Dennis

[mich04]

lol connections yea....right now I deliver coca cola I travel a 60 mile radius..

[PaulF]

Mich04, my first profession was in the grocery business in Iowa. I was with Hy-Vee, one of the Fareway competitors. Having been out of that rat race for many years, I think both of those chain's produce managers are still able to make their own purchasing decisions concerning locally grown produce. As a manager, I always let my produce people buy locally, but then things may (probably) have changed.

I would suggest indeterminates for their ability to give fruit for a longer period. I give my excess to a local restaurant and they love heirloom/OPs because of the different colors, flavors, etc. Shelf life of most of the tomatoes I grow is relatively short, so sales would need to take place in a couple of days or the produce people could have to pitch your tomatoes. Therefore I have no comment on whether you sell hybrids or Heirlooms. You need to know which will do better so far as sales go. Is yours going to be just another store bought tomato from a local source, or something unique to the market.

Getting into a bigger league means going to Des Moines or Boone to talk to the corporate buyers about supplying for the chain which would be nearly impossible for a small producer. You may get a group of the stores to buy and promote home grown tomatoes especially if they advertise together as a group for their local ads.

If you love headaches, you are in the right business. Good luck and keep us informed and I hope you do well.

[mich04]

yes fareway and hy-vee are still able to buy local and I totaly understand what you are saying about having enough product for the "corporate office that would be the 10 or 15 year goal.

[habitat_gardener]

One of the local grocery stores (not a chain) has a big display of tomatoes from a local grower all summer. They're red tomatoes, possibly a hybrid, but the sign says (I forgot the name) something like "Bob's Tomatoes" and "grown locally". One of the produce stands also sells them this way. So one idea for selling your tomatoes to grocery stores is to stress the "locally grown" part (if no one else is doing this) and to create your own "brand". If you can grow a steady supply of several different kinds of tomatoes, you could suggest that the stores call them "Mich's Beefsteak Tomatoes" , "Mich's Salad Tomatoes", etc.

If you have a local newspaper, invite the food writer to taste some tomatoes, and maybe they'll run some recipes for tomatoes and give you some publicity.

I think different colors of tomatoes are easier to sell at a farmers' market, especially if you can offer samples, and of course for restaurants. Even around here, where produce stands do offer some variety, and the farmers' markets sell lots of heirlooms, the grocery stores sell mostly basic reds.

[mtbigfish]

habitat
couldn't have said it better myself
Dennis

[wordwiz]

An older thread, but I just joined recently. I plan on going commercial next year, at least a lot more commercial than I have been in the past couple of year. Instead of a hundred or so plants, about 2,500.

I'm in the Cincinnati area and with the exception of a minute minority, people - both consumers and store managers/chefs wouldn't know a heirloom from a fruit loom! But they do know a red ripe tomato, appreciate not a lot of juice and detest tough skin.

Some of the things suggested above a potential businessman needs I have - experience, connections, marketing abilities. I've been growing stuff, on and off, for 50 years. I see or know a person who runs two large produce stores, two more who run delis, six restaurant owners, not to mention a couple hundred businesses as well as several fire departments/city halls where there are 50 or more employees gathered. Plus I own a small, weekly newspaper so advertising is free!

With 2,500 plants, I figure I will harvest about 5,000 pounds of maters per week once they start ripening. I'm just beginning to realize how many that is. I'll need 200-300 boxes with lids just to hold them!

Mike