Earl's Fault

[dcarch]

Here is an idea for someone to try out. A True self-watering system without valves or electric gadgets.
I hope the diagrams are self explanatory.

The concept is to have the weight of the container to allow/cut-off water into the container and the bungee cords (or springs) can be adjusted periodically to compensate for the increasing weight of the plant(s).

You will need to play with the location of the tube restrictor closer or further away from the hinges and the strength of the bungee cords to make it work, depending on your water pressure and size of the container.

The watering tube probably should be UV vinyl or some long lasting rubber.

This idea will eliminate the need for the reservoir, so you can use a smaller container. A drain hole will be needed to prevent rainwater over flow.

I have not tried to make this to test how it works because I don't have the room for EBs, but earl made me post this.
Let me know what you think.
It's Earl's Fault if your plants die.

dcarch

[mresseguie]

Ladies and gentlemen!! I'd like to announce the creation of a new category at the tomato fests this fall. It is called "Catapulting Tomatoes".

Unofficial judging has decided that as long as there is a second entry, there would be little doubt as to who will walk away with first prize.

Keep working on it, dcarch.

Enjoy life; catapult a tomato.

Michael

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

[Worth1]

What you have here is the ancient beginnings of the ballcock.
Springs would be a better choice and you can weigh the container to find out what strength you need.
You can then use turn buckles hooked to one end of the spring and the other to eye screws to fine tune the strength you need to stop/start the flow.
The pinch device should be replaced with a strait handled ball valve connected to the main frame and the handle connected to the hinged portion of the contraption that the plants are on.

You won’t ever have an absolute stop and start of water with this method so the container will pretty much stay at a constant level of weight.
What you can do is put the valve at the top of the container on the up right portion of the contraption; connect the container to the valve handle with a small chain.

In this way when the container rises to the top due to weight loss it will turn on the ball valve as the lip of the container hits the end of the handle.
The water will stay on.
The other connection that you made with the chain will now have slack in it so as the container fills with water it will slowly drop eventually taking up the slack and shutting off the water.
The water will stay off.
You can determine how much water by the distance from the valve handle to the container and by the tension on the springs.

You will have to rotate the ball valve so the valve handle hits right as there is a dead portion where it is off and on what you want to do is find the right angle so as to eliminate this dead spot.
You may want to put an extension on the handle so it is more sensitive to the container touching it.
What I have explained is called a limit switch.
With this method you get rid of the constant level of weight and you allow the dirt to dry a little more.
You also get an infinite amount of adjustments.

You will also need to get an adjustable water regulator to make things even easier to work with.

I have worked with instrumentation, electrical, hydraulics and mechanical for years and that is how I make my living.

With the contraption and the improvements I have added this thing will work.
I may just have enough things around the house to do it.


Hey, 'you asked!


Worth

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by mresseguie

--------
Enjoy life; catapult a tomato.

Michael
Sorry. I couldn't resist.

Hey, I am not worried about you! Now we have told you what's GW, Mischka is going have to kill you .

dcarch

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by Worth1

---------------Hey, 'you asked!

Worth

Yes, I guess I did asked for it.
Worth, me thinks you very good. Thumbs up.

My original idea was basically using a bathroom toilet tank float valve (only the small valve, you don't need the whole thing) actuated by the weight of the EB. Cheap and reliable. But on second thought, not too many people have the various connectors and adaptors needed to connect non-standard diameter pipes and tubes. The same goes for all other ideas I have.

This design is based on the desire to reduce everything to be as simple as possible so that most people can make it, even a caveman*.

dcarch
(* this is a USA joke, to you guys from other continents)

[landarc]

DC,
I have been thinking about those inline flush valves, not the ball and arm type, to achieve a similar goal, of automatically filling a reservoir. your idea is simple and low tech, something to be admired.

[Earl]

dcarch, I have to buy shoes with those velcro fasteners so I'm hesitant to try out your schematic. :-) But thanks. I'll bet Worth is putting one together right now!

What I wanted was a gizzmo about the size of a piece of 1/2 inch pvc pipe I could connect to 1/4 inch drip pipe and put into the fill pipe.

[mresseguie]

"Hey, I am not worried about you! Now we have told you what's GW, Mischka is going have to kill you .

dcarch"

Bad news first: I clicked on the link, and looked around for 10 mins.

Good news: I already lost the link. No loss.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mischka,

I'm a good man. I merely strayed for a few minutes. I want to buy one of the T shirts. Please, pretty please. Don't kill me that I may have a few more years of tomato growing. I'm still learning. What will my neighbors kids do if I'm gone?

[psa]

I've used self-leveling watering trays in the past with an inverted watering container. Water coolers and automatic pet water dishes work on this principle. When the water container is turned upside down with the opening submerged, no water comes out because of the vacuum in the container. If the level of the water falls below the opening in the container, air is let in and the water is replenished until the level is above the opening again.

I've also used 55G plastic water drums with an opening plumbed at the top and another at the bottom, each with a valve. Open the top and close the bottom to fill. Close the top and open the bottom, and it can feed the water tray.

Back to the topic at hand-
If you set the water container/drum at a higher level than the top of the earthbox, you can run a hose from the bottom valve of the container down the watering pipe of the plant box and it should be able to maintain the level of the water at the same level as the bottom of the hose, with the following considerations:
--the hose used must be wide enough to allow bubbles to pass upward at the same time that water is moving downward (this is a surface tension consideration that will also depend on the material of the tube)--no 1/8" tubes here
--there must be no point between the bottom of the hose and the entrance into the main chamber of the water container where it is not on at least a slight incline, or bubbles may become trapped and shut off the flow of water. In practice, I've made this kind of thing work with a horizontal bulkhead/valve on the bottom of the tank, but YMMV, and a wider outlet there will have less trouble.
--air must be allowed to enter the water chamber in the plant box, either around the tube in the watering pipe or through the overflow hole (I don't trust small overflow holes because they have a tendency to get plugged on me just when I need them most).
--cutting the bottom of the tube at an angle may help start the flow of air up the short side of the tube and water down the other side, at the expensive of allowing the level of the water to vary a bit more.

Finally, I haven't actually done this with an earthbox-like container. I have used it on wicking trays, humidity trays, and small ponds with good success. I will probably give it a go if I ever spring for an earthbox or try making one.

[dcarch]

psa has some very good ideas in a few other ways of self-watering system.

Even though I don't do container growing (yet), but the idea fascinates me. I know EB growing has been used successfully by many people, I am not understaqnding the following:
1. How you can get even moisture in the soil. It seems to me that the top will always be dryer then the bottom.
2. How do you adjust easily different moisture for different varieties?
3. A lot of room is used for the resevoir, would it be better if there is more soil in the box?

The design I came up with is to have a Box with only soil and any degree of moisture evenly distributed top to bottom.

Then, I don't know. I haven't tried it out.

dcarch

[Rena]

Please tell me what your profession in real life is Dcarth? Your wife must be very happy you are so handy!!

[psa]

Soilless mixes are good at wicking up moisture. That moisture evens out throughout the mixture just like water vapor in a room. There is a certain carrying capacity beyond which they no longer wick up the moisture. New mixes tend to work better for this. The traditional tradeoff in a wicked bottom watered situation is that the soil in the water is overwet, leading to the death of roots in that area and the growth of undesireable elements. The Earthbox design limits this by limited the amount of soil which is actually in the water.

The only way to adjust the moisture in the soil is to adjust the mix itself. Fortunately, a good light soilless mix wicks about the right amount of moisture for most plants. If they use more water, more is wicked up, and vice versa. Bottom watering also results in less compaction, so aeration is often better.

Beyond a certain height, the evenness of the moisture in the mix drops off and the concerns you expressed become more important. Many plants, and most of our water-loving tropical garden plants don't actually require an extensive root system to thrive as long as their basic needs are met, so they do quite well in an optimized environment (water, air, and nutrients in the soil) even when they have less space.

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by IMISSCOLO

Please tell me what your profession in real life is Dcarth? Your wife must be very happy you are so handy!!

HaHa! You guess, me not telling!

dcarch

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by dcarch

HaHa! You guess, me not telling!

dcarch

[Earl]

I want something simple, I mean way simple, like stick a 1/4 inch drip hose on one end and sticking the thingie down into a 1 1/2 inch pipe and when the water gets low thingie turns on water and refills. :-) He**, we can go to the Moon and Mars but we can't fill a jug without using a bucket. :-)