Planning A Fall Tomato Garden

[AlittleSalt]

I have written a thread about Hot/Heat Set tomatoes and read the advice. I'm growing in Texas between DFW and Waco Zone 8A. It gets hot and humid here in late June and July, and then it gets really hot and dry in August through September. Most gardeners don't plant anything here.

I don't want to accept that gardens can't be grown here in fall, and I'm stubborn to a point. Growing a fall garden is far from that point.

The spring garden has produced tomatoes. Weeks of the plants being wet most of the time has stunted many plants and killed others. I started a thread about that too.

Today, I poured some Clorox in a seed tray, dome, and seed cells - flooded them, and rinsed, and they're ready, so what tomato seeds to plant in them?

Heat set tomatoes or maybe some tomatoes that I have saved seeds from?

While heat set tomatoes are proven to do well in heat in certain places - Tomatoes I've saved seeds from my own garden have lived and produced here before.

Shade and mulching is important here. Dragons and remesh cages - no more horizontal lines and tying down.

Should I post this? Yes, gardening isn't a text book thing. You learn and you grow, and hopefully the tomato plants do too.

[rhoder551]

I'm trying something similar, not a garden but just one plant. Last year--mid summer--I was shopping at a local nursery and they had little tomato starts. I asked the guy if it wasn't too late for tomatoes and he said we have two tomato growing seasons here. This year I'm going to try that, already have Bloody Butcher sprouting and see how it goes. I do not know what I am doing at all but will probably be a lot of fun...

[MikeInCypress]

Juliet and Sungold have worked for me. Haven't had much luck with slicers. Too much disease and too many leaf footed bugs.Might try Kimberley.

MikeInCypress

[Worth1]

Lemon boy seemed to do better than others for me last year all year long.
I was very surprised.

[AlittleSalt]

I am thinking that cherry tomatoes will have a better chance of growing and producing in the fall garden.

The past two years of spring gardens have both started growing and producing tomatoes quickly. And then long periods of daily rain have stunted the in-ground garden. Even this week of no rain - heavy dew is on the plants until at least noon. I understand that tomato plants don't do well in this situation. But still #$%^...it's irritating.

Yet, I have raised beds with cherry tomatoes planted that are producing tomatoes larger than they're supposed to be on short stunted plants. And then there is another raised bed with Porter tomatoes - those plants are taller than I am.

I think the difference comes from several things. The raised bed with the Porter tomatoes has more drainage. Also the Porters are growing from seeds I saved from years of growing them here in our gardens in this soil.

[MarianneW]

Maybe try some of the short-season types? After all...fall is a short season. They're recommended by my local extension--their chart says "best results with shorter dtm varieties." Worth giving a whirl.

[Starlight]

I'm going all out for a fall garden. I figured starting seeds now and then putting the seedlings under shade cloth for the couple of months during our worst heat and humidity times will protect them til they can go out. Normally June and July are the worst here into the begining of August, so I am tryng to time things to go out for the middle of August.

Yep, fall gardening will have it challenges, especially in my climate. The biggest problem will be humidity playing havic on the plants, but there is Bill's bleach spray for that if necessary.

In the spring, when folks put out their plants, you deal with all kinds of problems and conditions. I figure it just a matter of learning how to grow them during a different season and supplying a different set of conditions.

I think for me the hardest thing is going to be having them getting enough hours of full sun as it changes during the fall.

It is going to be a new learning experience, but I figure following how some of the deep South folks grow during the fall and winter will be a big help.

[Dewayne mater]

I've stubbornly done fall tomatoes for years with varying degrees of success/failure. One possibility, keep things alive through the inferno, cut them back hard and they will come back when weather permits and be bigger, faster than transplants. Can be rough to do depending on disease and insect pressure.

Two, plant them out in July - cherries of course. Small varieties. To me, one of the best is black and brown boar. It will produce right up to frost and flavor and texture is minimally affected by cold nights, whereas most beefsteaks get mealy and bland when the nights get cold and the sun shine gets weaker and shorter. This theory should apply to any "saladette" sized tomato. BBB is bigger than that, but for me, even the largest ones are under 1/2 pound. To me, a mealy, bland tomato is just not worth eating and certainly not worth the effort to grow and most beef steaks get that way come cold November nights. Would love to hear if others know of bigger than cherry varieties that shake of the cold and still produce tasty tomatoes in fall in our area.

Three, and I haven't done this, but, know it can be done, root suckers on your Spring gardens and grow new plants from them. My wife's grandmother wrote an article that got published in Better Homes and Gardens in the 50s on doing that and she was doing that then in Dallas. It can work and get you "new" plants for a fall garden much faster than growing from see.

Four, transplants - there are few nurseries who sell them. Not many and the varieties are fewer, but, there is one pretty good one in Dallas, North Haven Gardens.

Good luck.

Dewayne

PS - this whole is not exactly on point, but hopefully helpful!

[berryman]

Don't know if this would apply to where you folks are but I grow some of my tomatoes in a greenhouse and one fall after the summer crop, instead of pulling the plants out I just cut them off at the base and let them be. Well, these big roots began to send out new shoots and I ended up getting tomatoes off those plants into the new year.
When I finally pulled out the roots in early spring they were huge. I think it was a black of some sort...black prince maybe.

[Worth1]

Our biggest problem is when it gets cool enough to start stetting fruit, the cold weather is right behind it to kill the plant before the fruit gets ripe.

Then as was said the dreaded bugs in the mid summer.
For myself I simply dont have enough interest to overcome the problems but I could if I had the interest but I dont.
In my spot the sun goes behind the trees again but the leaves dont fall till later on when it is too late.
It isn't like I can go in my neighbors yard and start cutting trees.
Worth

[swellcat]

Our biggest problem is when it gets cool enough to start setting fruit, the cold weather is right behind it to kill the plant before the fruit gets ripe.

Yes, with the Spring side of that coin being, when it gets warm enough for the plant to live, the extremely-hot weather is right behind it to kill the blooms if not the plant.

[AlittleSalt]

Both of you are right. But it's still worth trying - even if it can be irritating.

[Tracydr]

Have you considered dwarfs with hoops? Put up shade for heat,then switch to plastic to make small greenhouses?

[b54red]

I have been growing fall tomatoes for many years and have had great success as long as I get them in early enough meaning before August. After August it is very iffy and totally dependent on when winter gets here. Don't believe the myth that you have to grow only small or cherry tomatoes what you need are tomatoes that will set in the heat and some that will ripen when the temps get a little too cool. There are several factors that will make a huge difference in whether you are successful or not:

1. Heavy mulch: this protects the roots from excessive heat and rapid drying out which will both cause massive bloom drop. The plants will still need far more water than in the spring or the blooms will fail to set a decent amount of fruit. Even if everything is done properly during the hottest months fruit set will not be a good as in the fall when the nights cool down nor will the fruit get as large since the heat will cause somewhat earlier ripening during late summer and very early fall. I use a heavy layer of cypress mulch since it works better than anything I have tried and keeps the soil nice and cool and the moisture level more even.

2. Stagger Plant: I set out fall tomatoes during June and July in two or three different plantings being sure not to bury them deep when planting to avoid Bacterial Wilt or damping off. I try not to water them much after planting them in already moistened and mulched soil to promote fast root development. I only water them a bit when they start wilting for the first two weeks. After that I feed them with TTF every week to ten days if possible and water them regularly and fairly heavily when they start blooming. If any fruits start to split then I cut back on the watering temporarily.

3. Feed the plants regularly: I use TTF almost weekly as soon as they start blooming to encourage better fruit set and also start using an electric toothbrush in the morning on the blooms before it gets too hot.

4. Use fungicides and pesticides: Keeping the plants as disease free as possible is absolutely necessary if you want tomatoes in the fall and this means regular spraying with Daconil and copper along with using the bleach spray for gray mold and other hard to deal with problems. Spider mites, whiteflies, aphids, stink bugs and leaf footed bugs can cause great damage to plants during those really hot times and must be dealt with promptly when they appear. I have found a soapy water mix with Permethrin along with a good dose of diatomaceous earth food grade mixed in and then strained into the sprayer is the most effective remedy for these pests. BT can be used for worm prevention but if they get bad I will use Sevin for immediate fast results.

5. Pruning: I use Missouri pruning and keep my plants to only two stems but three or four can be used depending on your support method. The Missouri pruning allows for more foliage cover to prevent sunscald and the limiting of stems aids in air flow to prevent disease.

6. Varieties: This may be the most important decision you will make in successfully growing fall tomatoes. I have grown lots of tomato varieties in the fall and founds some are far better than others. Some years when the summer is cooler than normal almost any tomato variety will do okay but generally you need the varieties that will set fruit better in the heat and if you plant late then you need the ones that ripen better in the fall. Surprisingly there are even a few large fruited varieties that will do well as fall tomatoes.

The following are the ones that I have had the best luck with at setting in the heat:
Pruden's Purple
Indian Stripe (both reg and pl)
Spudakee
JD's Special C Tex
Couilles de Taureau (large)
Arkansas Traveler
Donskoi (large)
Druzba
Zogola
Limbaugh's Legacy (large)
Virginia Sweet (large)
Red Brandywine
Gary O' Sena (large)
Bill's Large Red
Neves Azorean Red (large)
Sioux

The following have proven that they can ripen well once it gets cool and since they also set well in the heat they are good for the last planting:
Carbon
Berkeley Tie Dye Pink
Spudakee
Indian Stripe
Limbaugh's Legacy

I am still trying out varieties for fall to see how they will do and will let you know if I find any more good ones.

Bill

[AlittleSalt]

Yesterday I started 6 varieties that we like (Especially my wife likes).

Sweetie
WOW
Peacevine
Oranje Van Goeijenbier
Japanese Pink Cherry
Punta Banda - 2 for growing in pots.

I already have 2 Sungold that I started in Solo cups that just started making their first true leaves yesterday. I started them outside.

On another thread here, I decided the next seeds planted in the seed tray will be Rebel Yell.

Then, I'm going to pick some off of Bill's list above. I believe in learning from experience of others in like conditions.