Save the Planet.

[Worth1]

Raise cattle.
https://youtu.be/q7pI7IYaJLI

[ContainerTed]

Sorry, Worth1. This planet already has enough methane. I really think we humans should find some other source of protein. Of course I still like my hamburgers and steaks and ...... Well, maybe I'm just not signed up 100% on the side of reducing the bovine population. But, then, we humans create a substantial amount of noxious gases. Maybe we should reduce the human population as well. Nayh, this subject is too political.

If we don't eat beef, then we must eat some kind of meat. I think you should put the antelope population on notice that they are next !!!!

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Sorry, Worth1. This planet already has enough methane. I really think we humans should find some other source of protein. Of course I still like my hamburgers and steaks and ...... Well, maybe I'm just not signed up 100% on the side of reducing the bovine population. But, then, we humans create a substantial amount of noxious gases. Maybe we should reduce the human population as well. Nayh, this subject is too political.

If we don't eat beef, then we must eat some kind of meat. I think you should put the antelope population on notice that they are next !!!!

You need to see the video first it is about controlled animal management on land to improve the soil so it doesn't erode and die.

Look at it this way millions of Bison and other animals were here before and there were vast grasslands for them to live on.
Many places that grassland was on is nothing but a dry dessert now.
I used to talk to old timers that lived in West Texas and how they said the land has changed so much from grass land to desert.
I was in my early 20's then.
Animals many animals on the plains is natural not plowing up the soil to raise crops.

[ContainerTed]

I know, Worth1. I was trying (apparently unsuccessfully) to be funny. There is even a serious effort to return the eastern part of Asia back to supporting things like native species of horses and major attempts to clone mastodons and other prehistoric animals of the plains of eastern Asia. Mankind is proving to not be a good steward of this planet, don't you think??

How long will it be before the unique species of Madagascar won't be with us??? Lemur are supposed to be among the species of our ancient ancestors. Too many people in too little a space. We're killing the house where we live.

[Worth1]

I should have went back and read your post again.
Today is not a good Worth brain day for some reason.
I have mind overload today with so may thoughts going on at once.
The whole methane from cows meatless Monday thing is what I call the Paul McCartney Hoax.
Madagascar is very sad indeed.

One thing about controlled cattle farming it is self sustaining not like modern wheat and corn farming which isn't.
Wheat dominates the store shelves in the way of junk food.
It should be reserved for pasta, good bread and beer.

[bower]

Just the other day I was reading about a type of seaweed that they are feeding to cows, and can reduce their methane to zero! The seaweed is tropical so sadly won't be growing it close to home. But kudos to the folks who are doing it, I hope it can be made available worldwide. Or maybe there's another one for us northern folks, that would be just as good....

RedBaron had some interesting things to say in another thread about C4 grasses, which sequester a lot of carbon apparently. That is a more sustainable grassland grazing land for the herd animals we don't want to let go.

I don't eat a lot of beef mostly because it's too expensive. But I'm very partial to my dairy and don't want to give that up. I'm okay with eating more legumes and vegetarian meals, but if I don't have some cheese to nibble on I will not be happy. I would much rather if we found more sustainable ways to keep cattle in the picture, within reason of course.
After all, it's not their fault that we burned all those dang fossil fuels!

[Worth1]

Here is a link to the great bison belt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_bison_belt
I can assure anyone here I have read way beyond any Wiki link about bison and the Americas.
The grasses they had and how the Indians controlled them.
It was a living meat locker for them for years.

Currently we have around 94 million cattle in the US.

It is estimated that there were around 60 million bison in North America at one time.

Sadly a vast amount of the beef from cattle is going to trashy junk food burger joints and such.
((That is not the way we should be consuming beef.))
The amount of environmental waste and impact is astounding.
Mostly due to the trash involved in selling one burger and the amount of energy used to keep the place warm and cool where they sell it.
I took a pictuer some time ago of the trash pile I had left over from just one order at Burger King.
I was sickening.
The plowing up of the soil killing off the bison and natural grass lands to raise wheat is one of the biggest environmental disasters in the history of man.

For right now till later I have just this to say.
Most people that get on only one band wagon like the dont eat meat to save the planet kick due to methane aren't looking at the big pictuer.
The celebrities that get involved are mostly uneducated tools to promote an agenda.

They see the deserts forming and holler climate change and green house gasses.
What they dont realize is much of that waste land is forming due to the lack of grazing on that land.
As the animals graze they fertilize the soil as they go from the grass they eat on that land.

The soil was so deep and fertile from bison that it took years of farming before it played out.
Then in the early 20th century they had to start fertilizing it to grow crops.
Mostly because of the wind blowing good soil away and depletion of soil nutrients.
That fertilizer they use today to grow crops causes tons of green house gasses to produce.
Plowing up large areas of land and not having anything on it causes a great amount of climate change in an aria so they say.

I propose less feed lot cattle production and more grass fed beef.
Raise rabbits in your back yard to eat.

[jtjmartin]

Fascinating video Worth.

Great example of why I think that mankind's knee jerk solution to many problems are worse than the original problem itself.

Get rid of cattle … grasses and plants that rely on cattle/bison to regenerate die … bare soil erodes and dries up … desert! Hoof prints are mini catch basins for rains and help plant seeds.

I do a lot of this with my property. I create as many runoff catch basins as I can in my landscape and I keep all my soil covered to reduce evaporation.

[SueCT]

Well I though it was very interesting and made a lot of sense. The problem is that this solution does not solve the problem that the methane causes. This helps return the earths dessert and barren areas to fertile areas, and that is a very good thing. But the methane effects the area above the earth and the ozone layer. So the problem is that the solution to one problem exacerbates a different problem. Now if they presented this as a way to manage and farm animals in a different way that helps the earth and also allows for fewer cows overall, maybe they could help both. But yes fast food beef would have to go, and we would have to also consider controlling populations to decrease the demand for beef, appreciating the beef we do eat and paying more for it because there will be less available and it might be more expensive to raise in a more ecological way. I love beef, but I can do without the 2.00 fast food burger that requires factory farms to produce, and eat my grass fed beef without antibiotics, just not every day. One reason I can seldom post under a cheap eating thread. I do occassionally, but that kind of meat is just rarely, if ever, cheap.

[AlittleSalt]

I can't sleep after mowing for 2 hours today. I watched the first 15 minutes of the video Worth shared - my internet is just too slow lately. I did get to the part where they were talking about keeping cattle in an area for too long. That was very easy to see when I was much younger. The county I live in used to be known as the state's #1 dairy county. Those cows would eat every blade of grass, and it didn't have a chance to grow back. I've seen chickens do the same thing in a pen. Things change, and I can point out many places that used to be dairies, but I'm not sure if the county I live in still has an operating dairy today.

As I wrote, I only saw 15 minutes of the video, but earlier in the video they talked about desertification. From my house, you can drive to the east 100 miles and it is lush vegetation. Drive 100 miles to the west and it's the complete opposite.

I also wrote about mowing today. I mowed an area that I usually leave alone. I mowed because it is yellowing like you would expect in drought conditions, but it has rained too much - not too little. The weeds looked bad, and I wanted to mow it because it was an eyesore. While/After mowing, those plants are basically dead and have already gone to seed. That's why it looks so bad. I have no idea if it has anything to do with that video, but herbicides or anything like Roundup overspray is not even a possibility.

I personally think the abundance of flooding rain caused those weeds to shift their focus from growing to seed production. I saw this in 2015 with tomato plants - 2015 rainfall more than doubled the yearly average here. 73+ inches of rain, and I added the + because often times the rain gauge overfilled. This has been like it was in 2015 but it started last September through now in May.

There was one other thing that really surprised me. A few days after the last flash flood, we have a drainage ditch in red clay. I expected it to be wet and muddy, but instead it has dried hard - like we are in a drought, but we're not, and the temperatures have been in the low 80s with mostly cloudy skies with exception of 2 days of mostly sunny conditions.. It's just my observations. I will take pictures tomorrow if it's not raining - it's supposed to rain though.

[AlittleSalt]

It did rain but not much this morning. I waited until it dried out and the clouds went away to get a picture. This yellowing and going to seed is normal for July, but not for May.

[Worth1]

I'll go with the 60 million Bison/livestock and methane to stop desertification first.
That grassland traps Co2 and builds soil.
Together thinking clearly and logically and not with passion and agendas we can save the planet.

[Cole_Robbie]

I'm a fan of John Oliver, who has a late night hbo show. Most of his material is posted for free on youtube. He did a segment about food waste. About 40% of the food in the US is wasted.
That stat is mind boggling.

As gross as it sounds, lab grown meat will probably be the future. Someday cows will be zoo animals, because most people will have never seen one.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I'm a fan of John Oliver, who has a late night hbo show. Most of his material is posted for free on youtube. He did a segment about food waste. About 40% of the food in the US is wasted.
That stat is mind boggling.

As gross as it sounds, lab grown meat will probably be the future. Someday cows will be zoo animals, because most people will have never seen one.

Reminds me of the time I had the big city girls in Switzerland pet the cow.
Thine I said look at your hands.

[jtjmartin]

I recycle. I grow organic. I love permaculture; hügelkultur etc. But . . .

I don't think humans are currently smart enough to understand how complex earth's ecosystem is. The video is another demonstration of this fact.

Ruminants were here long before warming in vast numbers.
They fed on grasses that other animals could not digest.

Their grazing promoted the health and spread of grasslands.
Grasslands sequester carbon.

Man discovers that methane is a greenhouse gas.
Man calls for the reduction/elimination of ruminants.
Without ruminants deserts spread.
Deserts lead to greater warming. People starve.

Say we eliminate all cattle with a snap of our fingers - how much of a temperature decrease will occur? What will it cost? How many humans will it kill? No one knows; no one ever says.

I travel a lot for business. I see invasive species all over that were many times introduced by man to control a problem that was less of a problem than the problem now created by man's intervention!

I am also told by my hotel that I will save the planet by reusing towels. It won't.