Question about lacto fermentation

Garry · April 2, 2011

I think I get the process, I have made sauerkraut by the jar. I'm really anxious to try some of the many recipes I've seen on the internet. My question is why can't you can the product? The recipe I used for the kraut says to can when the fermentation is done. I have also seen a few recipes online that also say to can when done. Storage space promts my question. Most say store in the fridge or root cellar, no such thing as a root cellar in this part of the world, too hot!! And like I would ever have room in the fridge! Does canning (boiling water bath) hurt the quality or taste or .....??? Any ideas, feedback, advice? Thanks in advance!

lowlylowlycook · April 2, 2011

I'd guess that canning would kill off the microbes that do the fermenting.

ireilly · April 2, 2011

I'm confused. You can buy canned sauerkraut, so it is obviously possible. I would think there are guidelines published to allow a safe process.

But I have never done it.

This article says can when fementation is complete.

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_06/sauerkraut.html

But what does lacto have to do with this? I thought lactobacillus was only with milk products.

Walter

BSue54 · April 2, 2011

From some discussion on a canning group to which I subscribe, I think the issue with canning it stops the fermentation process - ending the "probiotic" properties of the kraut. I've never tried it, either way... but here's "safe" guidelines from the National Center for Home Food Preservation for both fermenation and canning.

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_06/sauerkraut.html

Garry · April 3, 2011

This link may give you some ideas as to what I'm talking about:

http://paleodietlifestyle.com/fermented-food-recipes/

Hope this helps.

ireilly · April 3, 2011

Interesting, thanks.

Stepheninky · May 18, 2011

I have not made my own kraut to can before but with wines you have to also wait till it is fully fermented because if not it can explode the bottle with the pressure or bust the seal, so I am guessing that is why it says fermentation must be finished. We used to use those big bouncy balloons attached to the top of a 5 gal glass water bottle to do wines. the balloon will fill up with gas from the fermenting and then go down as it finishes when the balloon went flat we would bottle. Just trying to give you some ideals to go with.

use a double layer of plastic/saran type wrap, pull tight
and secure with a rubber band,, This would probably do the trick and act like a vapor lock, meaning if too much gas builds up it can escape out, but should keep anything else from getting in. It should completely ferment in the fridge in about 3-4 weeks at which time you could probably can it without any problems.

There are German crocks that do basically the same as the setup above would do.

Anyways, If I were to try it that is how I would probably go about it.

There are so many Amish and Minonites around here I usually just buy it already in canning jars from them. If you get out in the country side and visit the groups around here the prices are not too bad. I can buy corn, cabbage, broccoli, and many other veggies from them cheaper than I could grow it myself and that leaves me more room for other veggies in my garden.

organichris · May 18, 2011

This is a bit off topic, but if you've never tried it, give Kimchi a chance. It is the mother of sauerkraut. A bit spicier on average but, in my opinion, tastier. You can find recipes for it, but you have to use Chinese cabbage.

salix · May 18, 2011

Organichris, turnips, kohlrabi, daikon can also be used in kimchi... Probably a variety of different vegetables can be lacto fermented. I believe that canning these products not only kills off the "good" bacteria, but also negatively affects the quality, ie becomes softer and mushy as opposed to crisp. Personally, I think the quality is a bit better after freezing, but do not know if the "good" bugs survive.

Mark0820 · May 18, 2011

I agree with lowlylowlycook. The canning process kills the microbes and beneficial bacteria.

A few years ago, I experimented by cutting slices of jalapeno peppers in the shredded cabbage. After the fermentation process, it made a very nice, hot and spicy sauerkraut. I don't make it very often, but this is the only way I eat sauerkraut anymore (with the jalapenos added).

organichris · May 18, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by salix

Organichris, turnips, kohlrabi, daikon can also be used in kimchi... Probably a variety of different vegetables can be lacto fermented. I believe that canning these products not only kills off the "good" bacteria, but also negatively affects the quality, ie becomes softer and mushy as opposed to crisp. Personally, I think the quality is a bit better after freezing, but do not know if the "good" bugs survive.

Yeah, you can kimchi almost anything. Much better to simply refrigerate vs. can.

Tracydr · June 21, 2011

You can freeze it. It uses similar organisms to sourdough and you can freeze sourdough without killing it. So, I bet if you thawed it out, the organisms would still be alive.
I freeze my sauerkraut because it stays nice and crunchy.
I'm going to try making some kimchi this fall. Hoping I can get some daikons to grow so that I can use some daikons in it.

O.P. Mater · November 4, 2011

Garry, thanks for the link to the paleo-diet and recipes. I am new to lacto-fermentation, but became interested when I read about the health benefits. I completed an 8 qt. batch of kraut about 6 or 7 weeks ago. Just put it in quart jars with lids and put it in the refrigerator. Canning using heat isn't recommended if you want to get the health benefit from the probiotics. If anything, the refrigerated kraut has gotten better tasting over the 6-7 weeks it has been in the refrigerator. Currently have 2 fermentation crocks going now....one is 3 weeks behind the other one. Family loves it! I am going to try the fermented vegetable recipe in the link you posted with cauliflower, carrots, etc. Thanks!

loeb · May 22, 2013

You can add shredded carrots to cabbage, or some spices if it is made for salads : pepper, allspice, caraway, bay leaf, juniper fruit.. some people are adding some wine, some fruita [apples and plums]. Red cabbage can be done too.. Green cabbage is whitened in dark place before processing. This is how it is usually made here.. LActofermented vegetables are quite popular, especially cabbage and cucumbers, and mushrooms.

April 2, 2011	#1
Garry Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Carlsbad, new Mexico Posts: 14	Question about lacto fermentation I think I get the process, I have made sauerkraut by the jar. I'm really anxious to try some of the many recipes I've seen on the internet. My question is why can't you can the product? The recipe I used for the kraut says to can when the fermentation is done. I have also seen a few recipes online that also say to can when done. Storage space promts my question. Most say store in the fridge or root cellar, no such thing as a root cellar in this part of the world, too hot!! And like I would ever have room in the fridge! Does canning (boiling water bath) hurt the quality or taste or .....??? Any ideas, feedback, advice? Thanks in advance!

April 2, 2011	#3
ireilly Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dallas Posts: 344	I'm confused. You can buy canned sauerkraut, so it is obviously possible. I would think there are guidelines published to allow a safe process. But I have never done it. This article says can when fementation is complete. http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_06/sauerkraut.html But what does lacto have to do with this? I thought lactobacillus was only with milk products. Walter Last edited by ireilly; April 2, 2011 at 11:23 PM.

April 2, 2011	#4
BSue54 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Cut-N-Shoot, TX Posts: 73	From some discussion on a canning group to which I subscribe, I think the issue with canning it stops the fermentation process - ending the "probiotic" properties of the kraut. I've never tried it, either way... but here's "safe" guidelines from the National Center for Home Food Preservation for both fermenation and canning. http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_06/sauerkraut.html __________________ Bobbie in Cut-N-Shoot, TX Zone 8b

May 18, 2011	#7
Stepheninky Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 682	I have not made my own kraut to can before but with wines you have to also wait till it is fully fermented because if not it can explode the bottle with the pressure or bust the seal, so I am guessing that is why it says fermentation must be finished. We used to use those big bouncy balloons attached to the top of a 5 gal glass water bottle to do wines. the balloon will fill up with gas from the fermenting and then go down as it finishes when the balloon went flat we would bottle. Just trying to give you some ideals to go with. use a double layer of plastic/saran type wrap, pull tight and secure with a rubber band,, This would probably do the trick and act like a vapor lock, meaning if too much gas builds up it can escape out, but should keep anything else from getting in. It should completely ferment in the fridge in about 3-4 weeks at which time you could probably can it without any problems. There are German crocks that do basically the same as the setup above would do. Anyways, If I were to try it that is how I would probably go about it. There are so many Amish and Minonites around here I usually just buy it already in canning jars from them. If you get out in the country side and visit the groups around here the prices are not too bad. I can buy corn, cabbage, broccoli, and many other veggies from them cheaper than I could grow it myself and that leaves me more room for other veggies in my garden. __________________ tomatoprojects.blogspot.com

April 2, 2011	#2
lowlylowlycook Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: So. Illinois (6a) Posts: 147	I'd guess that canning would kill off the microbes that do the fermenting.

April 3, 2011	#5
Garry Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Carlsbad, new Mexico Posts: 14	This link may give you some ideas as to what I'm talking about: http://paleodietlifestyle.com/fermented-food-recipes/ Hope this helps.

May 18, 2011	#8
organichris Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 630	This is a bit off topic, but if you've never tried it, give Kimchi a chance. It is the mother of sauerkraut. A bit spicier on average but, in my opinion, tastier. You can find recipes for it, but you have to use Chinese cabbage.

May 18, 2011	#9
salix Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: north central B.C. Posts: 2,310	Organichris, turnips, kohlrabi, daikon can also be used in kimchi... Probably a variety of different vegetables can be lacto fermented. I believe that canning these products not only kills off the "good" bacteria, but also negatively affects the quality, ie becomes softer and mushy as opposed to crisp. Personally, I think the quality is a bit better after freezing, but do not know if the "good" bugs survive.

May 18, 2011	#10
Mark0820 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 907	I agree with lowlylowlycook. The canning process kills the microbes and beneficial bacteria. A few years ago, I experimented by cutting slices of jalapeno peppers in the shredded cabbage. After the fermentation process, it made a very nice, hot and spicy sauerkraut. I don't make it very often, but this is the only way I eat sauerkraut anymore (with the jalapenos added).

June 21, 2011	#12
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	You can freeze it. It uses similar organisms to sourdough and you can freeze sourdough without killing it. So, I bet if you thawed it out, the organisms would still be alive. I freeze my sauerkraut because it stays nice and crunchy. I'm going to try making some kimchi this fall. Hoping I can get some daikons to grow so that I can use some daikons in it.

November 4, 2011	#13
O.P. Mater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 147	Garry, thanks for the link to the paleo-diet and recipes. I am new to lacto-fermentation, but became interested when I read about the health benefits. I completed an 8 qt. batch of kraut about 6 or 7 weeks ago. Just put it in quart jars with lids and put it in the refrigerator. Canning using heat isn't recommended if you want to get the health benefit from the probiotics. If anything, the refrigerated kraut has gotten better tasting over the 6-7 weeks it has been in the refrigerator. Currently have 2 fermentation crocks going now....one is 3 weeks behind the other one. Family loves it! I am going to try the fermented vegetable recipe in the link you posted with cauliflower, carrots, etc. Thanks!

May 22, 2013	#14
loeb Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 251	You can add shredded carrots to cabbage, or some spices if it is made for salads : pepper, allspice, caraway, bay leaf, juniper fruit.. some people are adding some wine, some fruita [apples and plums]. Red cabbage can be done too.. Green cabbage is whitened in dark place before processing. This is how it is usually made here.. LActofermented vegetables are quite popular, especially cabbage and cucumbers, and mushrooms.