Low sun varieties

HydroExplorer · June 16, 2015

I have a shademaster locust tree that in my back yard that gradually shaded out what was my main garden. I want to get rid of the tree but my wife won't allow that.

Anyway, I took a vacation day today and watched how the shadows formed and found that one small sliver of the garden (approx. 2') gets about 6 hours of direct sun. The rest of the garden gets no direct sun (I watched it from 7 AM till about 6 PM).

Does anyone know of a tomato variety that will do mediocre in indirect sun? I'm assuming it would be a cherry tomato. I have no experience with cherry tomatoes.

habitat_gardener · June 17, 2015

What about the front yard?
Oh, and you're not using the driveway (for cars) this summer, right?

HydroExplorer · June 17, 2015

We live in a residential area...

It took a long time before I could convince my wife to let me grow any garden plants in the front yard. Now I can do it but I have to be careful not to push it. Cosmetics are a big deal to her.

So basically, being able to grow in the back yard means I can grow more tomato plants. In soil I will max out around 5 plants in the front yard.

daninpd · June 17, 2015

You brought up a good question: "How many divorces have been brought about by tomato gardening?" I know many caused by sailboats/racing/sailing and other salty subjects. Not sure about gardening.

zipcode · June 17, 2015

6 hours is decent. All cherries will do ok, and also bigger ones, just not late season ones (depends how Long your season is). I know stupice does alright in lower sun, also Sungold. I have some minidwarfs that can do with less than normal, but those aren't recommended for a normal garden.

Carriehelene · June 17, 2015

Wow, she wants to have control of the front and back yards? Tell her a wife from NY said that's not very considerate, and to decide which is more important to her, cosmetics in the front or tree in the back? Then you get the other yard to use as "you" choose. Hmm, on second thought, she might decide you are cheating with said wife from NY, and pop you in the mouth, so maybe that isn't such a good idea lol. Seriously though? That doesn't seem very fair

In regards to your question, have you taken into account that as the season progresses, the pattern may change, and what is getting 6 hours of sun now may not get the same amount of light in August?

FarmerShawn · June 17, 2015

In my experience, full sun means full flavor for any variety. It's when the days shorten in the fall and we have a spell of rainy, overcast weather that they begin to taste bland. So I agree, you should get either a shed-free backyard or full use of the front yard. As far as aesthetics, nothing looks as pretty to me as tomatoes in full production. It's certainly more pleasing to my eye than a manicured front lawn that looks pretty much just like everybody else's. OTOH, you don't have to live with me!

bower · June 17, 2015

Well I for one am totally into the question of shade tolerant tomatoes - no divorce is going to make the sun shine in my backyard. Climate change... maybe. I'm not counting on it.

Try Sungold, Stupice, Moravsky Div as a pretty sure bet for producing in low light conditions. I do put Stu or MDiv in the shadiest spot in my greenhouse with no remorse. You can warn the wife that your tomato plants will get monstrous and hard to manage/manicure when they don't get enough light. Maybe she'll allow some judicious pruning of the ahem shade canopy.

Another worth trying is Black Sea Man or Chernomor, which was one of few to produce for me in a super dark rainy summer. Jaune Flamme was another that produced late but still, it did produce that year and kept going into the fall and short day darkness once it started. Black Cherry produced too, but be forewarned, it will climb up into the canopy of your tree to do it!

and you'll be needing a ladder to get any fruit.
You could try some early determinates/semi-det, like Orange-1 and Zolotoe Serdtse, which might appreciate 6 hours and some shade. Even if they're leggy, it won't be too bad.

Better yet, just plant as many varieties as you can cram in there, and report back to us on the shade tolerance of the ones you tried!!!

There are bound to be some.

I can provide a modest list of tomatoes not to bother with in less than perfect light - what failed for me, but bearing in mind it's also cold and/or relatively humid in the dark here.

Isis Candy, Prudence Purple, Missouri Pink Love Apple, Azoychka, Pale Perfect Purple, Eva Purple Ball are among the failures that come to mind. You could, of course, grow IC, PPP, EPB on purpose, to tantalize the wife with a scanty handful of so delicious fruit that wanted sun to produce more....

I can't really agree that tomato taste depends on sun. I've had perfect fruit that ripened off the vine in fall in a paper bag, and were as sweet as that variety should be. Too much water is worst for taste, and for me (growing in containers) that's most often happening when it's so sunny and hot I have to water generously to keep the plants from getting crisped. (Not true of peppers, however - their sweetness really does depend on sunshine afaict).

There's a fruit from the Phillipines I think it's the Calamondin, that produces in the dark ie even indoors, and it has been suggested this was adapted to high volcanic activity in the area which blocked the sun for whole seasons or years at a time. The 'Nagcarlang' or other landrace tomatoes from the phillipines might have shade tolerant genes lurking.... just a thought.

**carolyn137** · June 17, 2015

Prudence Purple, ?????

My post is not relevant to the initial question but I couldn't help asking Bower if using the name Prudence Purple instead of Prudens Purple indicates a revival of that now very old heated discussion that went on and on in the SSE Yearbooks for so many years and the consensus was Prudens Purple.

Carolyn

HydroExplorer · June 17, 2015

Thanks for all the information. I'll buy some seeds and try some of these.

I agree that a well maintained vegetable garden is much more beautiful than a bunch of grass. I hate grass because I have to maintain it and it doesn't taste like tomatoes.

I've had to learn to make my ideas a little less extreme so she doesn't immediately reject them. We used to have a flagpole in full sun and I was thinking it would be really sweet to grow a tomato plant up the flagpole (too extreme). I am making headway and gaining more freedoms over time.

From my wife's perspective, she lets me garden in the back yard (in the shade) so she feels she is compromising. The part where my garden is getting sun for about 6 hours is not actually on our property but I didn't realize that when I did it and my neighbor hasn't made a fuss.

I'm making headway on the front yard and I fully intend to grow as many as 6 tomato plants there next year. I need to grow the shade stuff just in case. I'm also getting my 3yr old into gardening because as she gets older... Plans...

Worth1 · June 17, 2015

My tomato plants in the front along the driveway dont get much sun in the morning.
I have one black prince that is in dappled shade most of the time and it is doing great.

Also the way I put the raised beds in along the drive is the talk of the neighborhood.
Everyone just loves the place and says it is really classy.

I suspect you dont have a lot of room to deal with and that can be hard.
Good luck.

Worth

HydroExplorer · June 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

My tomato plants in the front along the driveway dont get much sun in the morning.
I have one black prince that is in dappled shade most of the time and it is doing great.

Also the way I put the raised beds in along the drive is the talk of the neighborhood.
Everyone just loves the place and says it is really classy.

I suspect you dont have a lot of room to deal with and that can be hard.
Good luck.

Worth

Can you put a pic of what your beds look like? Maybe I just need to make it prettier.

Worth1 · June 17, 2015

Here is a picture from this spring.

Worth

Worth1 · June 17, 2015

All of the pictures of the thing can be found on the Random pictures thread in the Photo section starting at around page 11 or so.

Worth

HydroExplorer · June 17, 2015

That looks good. I'll show it to her and see what she thinks.

I'm not good enough at carpentry to build something like that (I'm really bad at carpentry) but I could probably work something out with people who are.

June 16, 2015	#1
HydroExplorer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 132	Low sun varieties I have a shademaster locust tree that in my back yard that gradually shaded out what was my main garden. I want to get rid of the tree but my wife won't allow that. Anyway, I took a vacation day today and watched how the shadows formed and found that one small sliver of the garden (approx. 2') gets about 6 hours of direct sun. The rest of the garden gets no direct sun (I watched it from 7 AM till about 6 PM). Does anyone know of a tomato variety that will do mediocre in indirect sun? I'm assuming it would be a cherry tomato. I have no experience with cherry tomatoes.

June 17, 2015	#4
daninpd Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prunedale, CA Posts: 134	You brought up a good question: "How many divorces have been brought about by tomato gardening?" I know many caused by sailboats/racing/sailing and other salty subjects. Not sure about gardening. __________________ I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

June 17, 2015	#7
FarmerShawn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,001	In my experience, full sun means full flavor for any variety. It's when the days shorten in the fall and we have a spell of rainy, overcast weather that they begin to taste bland. So I agree, you should get either a shed-free backyard or full use of the front yard. As far as aesthetics, nothing looks as pretty to me as tomatoes in full production. It's certainly more pleasing to my eye than a manicured front lawn that looks pretty much just like everybody else's. OTOH, you don't have to live with me! __________________ "Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT'S bad for you!" -- Tommy Smothers

June 17, 2015	#9
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Prudence Purple, ????? My post is not relevant to the initial question but I couldn't help asking Bower if using the name Prudence Purple instead of Prudens Purple indicates a revival of that now very old heated discussion that went on and on in the SSE Yearbooks for so many years and the consensus was Prudens Purple. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

June 17, 2015	#2
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	What about the front yard? Oh, and you're not using the driveway (for cars) this summer, right?

June 17, 2015	#5
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	6 hours is decent. All cherries will do ok, and also bigger ones, just not late season ones (depends how Long your season is). I know stupice does alright in lower sun, also Sungold. I have some minidwarfs that can do with less than normal, but those aren't recommended for a normal garden.

June 17, 2015	#6
Carriehelene Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 300	Wow, she wants to have control of the front and back yards? Tell her a wife from NY said that's not very considerate, and to decide which is more important to her, cosmetics in the front or tree in the back? Then you get the other yard to use as "you" choose. Hmm, on second thought, she might decide you are cheating with said wife from NY, and pop you in the mouth, so maybe that isn't such a good idea lol. Seriously though? That doesn't seem very fair In regards to your question, have you taken into account that as the season progresses, the pattern may change, and what is getting 6 hours of sun now may not get the same amount of light in August?

June 17, 2015	#8
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Well I for one am totally into the question of shade tolerant tomatoes - no divorce is going to make the sun shine in my backyard. Climate change... maybe. I'm not counting on it. Try Sungold, Stupice, Moravsky Div as a pretty sure bet for producing in low light conditions. I do put Stu or MDiv in the shadiest spot in my greenhouse with no remorse. You can warn the wife that your tomato plants will get monstrous and hard to manage/manicure when they don't get enough light. Maybe she'll allow some judicious pruning of the ahem shade canopy. Another worth trying is Black Sea Man or Chernomor, which was one of few to produce for me in a super dark rainy summer. Jaune Flamme was another that produced late but still, it did produce that year and kept going into the fall and short day darkness once it started. Black Cherry produced too, but be forewarned, it will climb up into the canopy of your tree to do it! and you'll be needing a ladder to get any fruit. You could try some early determinates/semi-det, like Orange-1 and Zolotoe Serdtse, which might appreciate 6 hours and some shade. Even if they're leggy, it won't be too bad. Better yet, just plant as many varieties as you can cram in there, and report back to us on the shade tolerance of the ones you tried!!! There are bound to be some. I can provide a modest list of tomatoes not to bother with in less than perfect light - what failed for me, but bearing in mind it's also cold and/or relatively humid in the dark here. Isis Candy, Prudence Purple, Missouri Pink Love Apple, Azoychka, Pale Perfect Purple, Eva Purple Ball are among the failures that come to mind. You could, of course, grow IC, PPP, EPB on purpose, to tantalize the wife with a scanty handful of so delicious fruit that wanted sun to produce more.... I can't really agree that tomato taste depends on sun. I've had perfect fruit that ripened off the vine in fall in a paper bag, and were as sweet as that variety should be. Too much water is worst for taste, and for me (growing in containers) that's most often happening when it's so sunny and hot I have to water generously to keep the plants from getting crisped. (Not true of peppers, however - their sweetness really does depend on sunshine afaict). There's a fruit from the Phillipines I think it's the Calamondin, that produces in the dark ie even indoors, and it has been suggested this was adapted to high volcanic activity in the area which blocked the sun for whole seasons or years at a time. The 'Nagcarlang' or other landrace tomatoes from the phillipines might have shade tolerant genes lurking.... just a thought.

June 17, 2015	#11
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	My tomato plants in the front along the driveway dont get much sun in the morning. I have one black prince that is in dappled shade most of the time and it is doing great. Also the way I put the raised beds in along the drive is the talk of the neighborhood. Everyone just loves the place and says it is really classy. I suspect you dont have a lot of room to deal with and that can be hard. Good luck. Worth