Phosphorus Deficiency - how to fix?

[jflournoy]

I don't have any pictures, but based on images I've seen on the web, I'm pretty sure my tomato plants are showing signs of phosphorus deficiency. Some purpling of the older leaves, and the top, new growth isn't as strong green as it was several weeks ago, and the new growth is getting purple around the edges as well. The plants have been very healthy, 5+ feet tall, huge leaves, tons of fruit, but these signs over the last few days are worrying me. I don't have a drip irrigation system set up for our plants, so my only reasonable way of getting these plants some phosphorus quickly will be via spraying them (815 plants). Is there any particular product I should use? I have some Texas Tomato Food concentrate, and also some Miracle Gro "Tomato" formula. Would one of those be sufficient, in spray form, to get my plants some phosphorus that they can absorb quickly? If so, what kind of mix ratio of TTF or MG per gallon of water should I try?

When I did a soil test before planting several months ago, my level of Boron was also pretty low, so it may be possible they are experiencing a little Boron deficiency as well. Would it hurt to add a little powdered 20 Mule Team Borax into the spray solution and put that on there as well?

Thanks.

[b54red]

Probably all you need to do is give them a good feeding every week of TTF or MG. Sometimes I have that problem but it isn't from a lack in the soil but rather soil that is too alkaline in my case. Anytime I want to give plants a real boost of P all I have to do is give the soil under the plants a little dose of acid by feeding them some water with vinegar in it. I actually have to be careful not to give them too much or make it too acid or they will sometimes get an overdose of P especially very young plants.

Bill

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by b54red

Probably all you need to do is give them a good feeding every week of TTF or MG. Sometimes I have that problem but it isn't from a lack in the soil but rather soil that is too alkaline in my case. Anytime I want to give plants a real boost of P all I have to do is give the soil under the plants a little dose of acid by feeding them some water with vinegar in it. I actually have to be careful not to give them too much or make it too acid or they will sometimes get an overdose of P especially very young plants.

Bill

I forgot to mention that I have been giving them some TTF about once a week, mixed in with my Daconil spraying. At a rate of 1 TBSP TTF to a gallon of water, just sprayed on, though, it's looking like that is not a strong enough solution. Maybe it would be for MG since the concentrations of NPK are so much higher than in TTF, but apparently I should mix the TTF "hotter" than 1 TBSP/gallon, and how much would be too much?

[heirloomtomaguy]

If you are certain it is a phosphorus deficiency i would first foliat spray with Earth Juice Bloom Master at half strength followed up by a regular dose of the same product watered into the soil. Not only will it help your deficiency problem but it will also help the plant bloom like a champ.
http://www.hydro-organics.com/site/p...-master-h3727/

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by heirloomtomaguy

If you are certain it is a phosphorus deficiency i would first foliat spray with Earth Juice Bloom Master at half strength followed up by a regular dose of the same product watered into the soil. Not only will it help your deficiency problem but it will also help the plant bloom like a champ.
http://www.hydro-organics.com/site/p...-master-h3727/

Actually, there are so many blooms and so many tomatoes on our plants that I'm wondering if that might be contributing to the phosphorus deficiency in the foliage, it's all going to the tomatoes! Not sure if that's accurate or not, but I've actually been snipping blooms and thinning tomatoes off the plants because there are so many.

[Gardeneer]

If you have been fertilizing your plants regularly, with ANY kind of fertilizer, It is very unlikely to
have "P" deficiency. Unless some other elements is blocking its uptake.

BTW I am using Alaska Morebloom ( 0 - 10 -10 ) just to boost flowering. The cost is very reasonable. !~ $8 for a quart.

Gardeneer

[Lindalana]

What looks like deficiency of one element might actually be something else deficiency. It just does not work exact. It is also easy to make it worse.
What you describe sounds like very healthy plants with great production. At some point older leaves start looking old. Darkened edges on the leaves can actually show over fertilizing too.
Posting pictures to see would be really helpful.
I am not familiar with applying boron as specific element to plants as foliar feed to fix soil deficiency. Plus TTF has some boron in it.

[Gardeneer]

Jfj .. you mentioned " my plantS.." . How many of them are showing the symptom you have described ? All different varieties or a particular one ?
I have an Indigo Rose that has purplish leaves and stem..

As I have mentioned if you have been using any kind of fertilizer it is ver unlikely to have P deficiency. TTF has 3.8 -3.1- 7.0 analysis. MG tomato fertilizer has 12-4-8 analysis

Gardeneer

Gardeneer

[korney19]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Jfj .. you mentioned " my plantS.." . How many of them are showing the symptom you have described ? All different varieties or a particular one ?
I have an Indigo Rose that has purplish leaves and stem..

As I have mentioned if you have been using any kind of fertilizer it is ver unlikely to have P deficiency. TTF has 3.8 -3.1- 7.0 analysis. MG tomato fertilizer has 12-4-8 analysis

Gardeneer

Gardeneer

I thought he said M-G for Tomatoes, which is something like 18-18-21 or so. I'd use that and view the label with a magnifying glass--the tomato formula may have Boron in it as it has a good combination of micro nutrients that standard M-G doesn't have...

P.S. I knew I had this somewhere, just took a while to check which HDD...

Phos. isn't even listed but too much Calcium can cause Boron deficiency. I'd try simpler things first like 1T Epsom Salt/gal of water; if that doesn't help try the M-G for Tomatoes.

Hope this helps.

[amideutch]

I would wait a week before doing anything. Tomato plants experience root death during their growth phase and then the roots grow back and everything is back to normal. Dr. Cooper who developed the NFT technique discovered this phenomenon while developing the system. You never see it in when growing tomatoes in aggregates as you can't see the roots but it does happen.

Ami

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by amideutch

I would wait a week before doing anything. Tomato plants experience root death during their growth phase and then the roots grow back and everything is back to normal. Dr. Cooper who developed the NFT technique discovered this phenomenon while developing the system. You never see it in when growing tomatoes in aggregates as you can't see the roots but it does happen.

Ami

What is considered the "growth phase"? These plants were planted on May 2 and May 5.

I had forgotten that TTF has Boron. I was thinking possible Boron deficiency because the soil test showed low in Boron, and also some of the symptoms of these plants match some of the symptoms of Boron deficiency in tomatoes.

It's not the older leaves that really got me to thinking what was going on, it's the newer stuff at the top. For weeks the new growth up there looked great, healthy, supple, and light green. Now the new growth on the older plants in the last week is looking less green, and has a purplish hue around the edges. We have been getting lots of rain like everyone else in the Midwest and East this Summer, but the plants are planted in raised beds, in plastic, on a slight slope, so I have my doubts about whether this is rain related or not, especially since all the plants have been getting the same amount of rain, yet all of them are not showing the same level of "symptoms" I described.

Someone asked whether it was just certain varieties showing these symptoms, and the answer is no, many are. The ones that are showing it worse are the ones that were planted the earliest, in early May. The ones that were planted later in May are showing some of the purple blotches on some of the big lower leaves, but not the yellowing/purple edges on the new growth (yet). Our 800 + plants are planted in 3 different fields, so the soil profile is a little different in each one. All 3 of them have a "medium" to "low" level of both P and K, though. I addressed that before planting by tilling in some 6-24-24 granular fertilizer

The MG Tomato formula I have is 18-18-21.

I decided to go ahead and make up a mix of MG Tomato formula and TTF and apply that. I did so at a brisk walk down the rows, didn't drench the plants or anything like that, each one got no more than 3/4 of a second worth of spray, at most. I did it when it was overcast and a little misty, so hopefully shouldn't have any problems with burning the leaves. If there is a nutrient deficiency, hopefully I should see some response within a week or so if this was enough to help. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by korney19

I thought he said M-G for Tomatoes, which is something like 18-18-21 or so. I'd use that and view the label with a magnifying glass--the tomato formula may have Boron in it as it has a good combination of micro nutrients that standard M-G doesn't have...

P.S. I knew I had this somewhere, just took a while to check which HDD...

Phos. isn't even listed but too much Calcium can cause Boron deficiency. I'd try simpler things first like 1T Epsom Salt/gal of water; if that doesn't help try the M-G for Tomatoes.

Hope this helps.

Awesome chart,Mark! I just learned from this that the optimum pH for a soiless mix is much more acidic, 5.5. I had always thought that regardless of the planting medium, the optimum was 6.5-6.8. This is very good news for those of us who container garden in SWCs.
Thank you for posting this.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by jflournoy

I forgot to mention that I have been giving them some TTF about once a week, mixed in with my Daconil spraying. At a rate of 1 TBSP TTF to a gallon of water, just sprayed on, though, it's looking like that is not a strong enough solution. Maybe it would be for MG since the concentrations of NPK are so much higher than in TTF, but apparently I should mix the TTF "hotter" than 1 TBSP/gallon, and how much would be too much?

Why do you not give them a gallon or two of the TTF in the container at the rate of one Tablespoon to the gallon? I definitely wouldn't mix it up too strong especially as a foliar spray as it can burn leaves which might be what is going on. I give my plant in the ground a gallon or two of the TTF solution using a hose end sprayer ever week or so. I see results by the next day and even more the day after.

You shouldn't be mixing anything with the Daconil that you are applying to the plants.

Bill

[Gardeneer]

In my previous post I stated tha MG Tomato fertilizer has 12-4-8 analysis. That is incorrect. My apology.
The one that I use is called " Shake N Feeds" for tomatoes, peppers .. has 9-4- 12 analysis.
But that was beyond the point. The point was that most fertilizers have sufficient amount of "P" not to cause any deficiency. JMO

Gardeneer

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by b54red

Why do you not give them a gallon or two of the TTF in the container at the rate of one Tablespoon to the gallon? I definitely wouldn't mix it up too strong especially as a foliar spray as it can burn leaves which might be what is going on. I give my plant in the ground a gallon or two of the TTF solution using a hose end sprayer ever week or so. I see results by the next day and even more the day after.

You shouldn't be mixing anything with the Daconil that you are applying to the plants.

Bill

You're saying you give each plant a gallon or two of the TTF solution (@ 1 TBSP/gallon of water) every week or so?

We have 815 plants and it takes about 15-20 gallons of Daconil mixed solution to get them covered to my satisfaction for one spraying per week or so. To that 15-20 gallons, I mix in TTF at 1 TBSP/gallon. That means that 815 plants divided by 20 Tablespoons of TTF equals.... If I did my math correctly, that means each plant is receiving less than 1/10th of a TEASPOON of TTF once a week. If you're giving 1 TBSP of TTF per plant, then I'm obviously giving much, much less, and I don't think there's any chance of burning the plants spraying it on at that ratio. Especially because I try to religiously do all my spraying in early evening or late evening when it's cooler and the Sun isn't directly on them. My plants are planted in soil that was pretty good already, so I was feeding them that amount of TTF with the Daconil spraying every week more as a "can't hurt" type thing than something I thought was absolutely necessary. I thought it might help some with more blooms. I don't know if it's that amount of TTF or if it's the fact that we planted them in raised beds this year (first time we've done that), but I cannot believe the number of blooms and tomatoes we have on the plants, even on varieties that haven't set heavily for us in the past, like Cherokee Purple. I've actually been doing some thinning of tomatoes and blooms, particularly near the tops of plants, because there are too many for the plants to carry to maturity without surely breaking.

I've read some people say that Daconil isn't supposed to be mixed with other things, but I've done it in the past and it doesn't seem to cause any problems. An Amish acquaintance of mine a few miles away doesn't spray any synthetic fungicides and his tomatoes are already almost completely destroyed by blight, hardly any green left on his plants. I think the Daconil is working on my plants, despite the fact that we've had way, way more rain in the last month than we normally have this time of year.