How much is too much sun?

[My Foot Smells]

A weak front passing through today, but previously needed a welding mask to step outside in the bright sunshine. Not so sure the sun is biggest problem, but hot, dry, wind.

My garden is in full sun and maters get about 12+ hours. I have planted trees on west side about 50 ft out, but they are still pups (german oak, 2 sawtooth oaks) and only about 25 feet tall (grew from acorn).

The sun never sets, so it seems. Can't really do shade covers and such, as weather unpredictable and violent at any time. If it is not permanent beefy and tied down with concrete; it's a gonner.

Have upped my watering schedule, but mindframe is let it pass and don't try to screw with things too much; nature knows more than I and figure things will get defensive.

[Anthony_Toronto]

As long as you can control watering and the temp doesn't get too high, is there even such a thing as too much sun for tomatoes?

[AlittleSalt]

Until last fall, I thought all garden vegetables needed as much full sun as possible. Then there was this one volunteer tomato plant that started growing in a flower/herb bed 150' away from our vegetable garden. That plant grew with only 4 hours full sun and was shaded by huge oak trees the rest of the time. That Porter tomato plant grew 7' tall and produced tomatoes heavily until late November when a heavy freeze finally got it. We were still eating tomatoes from that plant in January.

So, I built three raised beds in that area just for growing fall tomatoes. The shading cannot get any more natural than oak trees.

I've started watering every third evening now that it's hot and dry. Oh, and I use oak leaves as mulch so the ground doesn't get so hot around the tomato plant roots.

[My Foot Smells]

Anthony Tornoto - could be? depending on how close to the equator you are. It has been a ball bustin' 100 degrees here and not a cloud in sight (exp. for today). Not necessarily the amount of sun in question per' se; but the intensity is ridickulous.

alittlesalt - I have noticed that at times too. you being 8a (I'm 7b), is that when the sun is starting to scorch, even in the shade, you get indirect light - which may be enough to carry? you need double or triple shade to be in the shade. (i.e., underneath a tree, under awning, under an umbrella) to be protected. Kinda like when I go to the handle or mexico yucatan, the reflection on sand burns underside of my chin. come midday, don't know if there is a true shade, maybe if you are humping the north side trunk of a well endowed magnolia

[Cole_Robbie]

Sun scald happens to me when either the plant falls over, or blight/septoria eat away the leaves that shade the fruit. The foliage of a healthy plant should be all the shade you need. It's the fruit that get burned, not the leaves, at least with a mature plant.

[Dewayne mater]

I agree with Anthony, it's not the sunlight hours, it's the heat and sunlight. See Akmark growing in Alaska with what 18 hours of sun of day? Freakishly huge, gorgeous tomatoes. On the other hand, 7 hours of direct sun in 100 degree temps is too much and beats down the plant, making it highly susceptible to spider mites and other problems. That's why I use 50% shade cloth and it helps tremendously in the hot hot dog days of summer like now.

Dewayne Mater

[Salsacharley]

I am using 70% shade cloth and still have to water almost daily. I have some plants in full sun and I feel guilty for not covering them as they roast. They are also getting hit by spider mites worse than the covered ones. Spider mites are my primary nemesis everywhere. I do have my shade cloth very heavily attached to a vertical frame of studs and electrical conduit.

[My Foot Smells]

cole - I don't prune this time of year and keep leaf canopy. no fruit scald, just intense heat that is stressing things out. The heat builds through the day, and by 2:00pm it is a whopper and from 2:00 - 6:00pm downright abusive.

nice info dewayne and salsa, (also nice pic of improvision salsa) on use of the cloth. I do not have overhead support for tying cloth, I do have some 50 I use in the greenhouse early spring though.

I looked at the radiation index july for the states, and it does not depict my area being the worst (so. cali and southwest), it is in the next color shade (orange). Guess I need to figure UV index and effects. My garden layout is open, as I have tons of room and everything gets plenty of sun, maybe start using plants to shade other plants in future.

I do like the shadecoth motif and future bed design and placement will incorp. There are just so many variables in a single growing season.

[b54red]

My biggest problem has been with my bell peppers during this scorching heat. I rarely pick one that isn't sun scalded right not. The intense heat of midday causes the upper leaves to wilt badly leaving too many fruits open to the direct burning sunlight. I wish now I had put a shade cloth over them. My tomatoes are much less susceptible and other than a few that are too exposed rarely get too many with sun scald and they seem much less likely to wilt badly on the hottest of days unlike bell peppers.

Bill

[Gardeneer]

I think that tomato plant need a certain amount of TOTAL LUMEN for its photosynthesis. The lumen can come from direct and indirect light. Beyond that plant won't utilize light.
Because a plant can tolerate say 12 hours of direct sun, it does not meant that it needs all that or benefits from it.
So if you can have healthy plants with 70% filtering ( as salsacharley , above), what does that tell you ?
I have grown tomatoes with about 6 hours of direct sun for years and in my current garden I get about 4 hours and doing ok. But I think 5-6 hours would have been just enough. JMO

Gardeneer

[Cole_Robbie]

You guys who are growing tomatoes in the desert, I don't mean to say you don't need shade cloth. Obviously you do. I am only speaking for my zone 6 experience.

To the original poster, I would say to try to look at what commercial producers in your area do. I know I had Arkansas tomatoes in my grocery store a month ago. You could find a local farmer's market and ask the tomato vendors there how they handle the summer.

[My Foot Smells]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

To the original poster, I would say to try to look at what commercial producers in your area do. I know I had Arkansas tomatoes in my grocery store a month ago. You could find a local farmer's market and ask the tomato vendors there how they handle the summer.

I don't get out much first off, however, I do frequent a community garden on a sunday drive. Speculate, that most "commercial" growers here grow determinate tomatoes (mtn. spring) which produce before the summer heat kicks in. The times I have been to farmer market, seems like most are small time growers and not aware of their setup.

At the community garden, all are grown in open space under full sun - but they look terrible. The excessive rainfall early in the year and now the heat has things looking terrible. Farmers couldn't break plow until May and then got washed out this year. I guess the gardeners down at the community just don't care about appearances and are happy to get what they get. I know a few and they are diligent master gardeners - but they don't trouble with asthetics or production. They simply plant more plants if they want more tomatoes.

I am more of a backyard type and like the beauty of the garden. Have raised beds with handmixed soil that sits on top of heavy clay native. Bumper crops usually, but also like for things to "look" good. So my agenda may be different than just a bloke trying to get a few tomatoes. It's a hobby and learning experience, as I am no master.

I am currently picking about 100 lbs a week off 28 plants and they are coming in bunches despite the plants showing severe stress. Some are overreaching the 8ft TTC. Must say it is a lot for me to keep up with 28, and have thought about paring down to maybe 12. There is some neglect.

[Dewayne mater]

You aren't too much further north than I am in a northern DFW suburb. I think you are likely to benefit from 50% shade cloth. It lowers the temperatures underneath it by quite a bit. Maybe only a little bit on a thermometer, but, as for the way it feels to a human, it is a 10 degree drop and tomatoes are alive, so, I have to suspect they "feel" the drop in temps from shade like we do to some degree at least.

I would consider using white or aluminet for max cooling effect. You can order specific sizes or buy premade pieces. Be sure to get something with a strong edge with eyelets built into the edges every couple of feet. This will allow you to tie or l zip-tie the cloth in any way you need to for securing it from high winds. There have been good posts in the past about shade cloth. I would say this, in my area, you can have a terrific spring crop without it. However, I cannot keep my plants healthy and producing without it in the months of July and August. So, I wait to put it on until the temps are hitting mid 90s, then I keep it on until the temps are routinely lower than that. Good luck!

Dewayne Mater

[My Foot Smells]

Originally Posted by Dewayne mater

You aren't too much further north than I am in a northern DFW suburb. I think you are likely to benefit from 50% shade cloth. It lowers the temperatures underneath it by quite a bit. Maybe only a little bit on a thermometer, but, as for the way it feels to a human, it is a 10 degree drop and tomatoes are alive, so, I have to suspect they "feel" the drop in temps from shade like we do to some degree at least.

I would consider using white or aluminet for max cooling effect. You can order specific sizes or buy premade pieces. Be sure to get something with a strong edge with eyelets built into the edges every couple of feet. This will allow you to tie or l zip-tie the cloth in any way you need to for securing it from high winds. There have been good posts in the past about shade cloth. I would say this, in my area, you can have a terrific spring crop without it. However, I cannot keep my plants healthy and producing without it in the months of July and August. So, I wait to put it on until the temps are hitting mid 90s, then I keep it on until the temps are routinely lower than that. Good luck!

Dewayne Mater

Will give it a try, as heat is expected to continue if I can muster the mental effort. Do have aluminet 50 that I use for various app's (man - do the mice/rats love that stuff) w/ grommets.

Thanks for the adequately suggestive reply.