Alpha BioSystems Thrive

[RayR]

Alpha BioSystems has a new website for their Thrive product line.
They are also offering a free sample of your choice. Free is good!

I've never used a bacterial/myco innoculant before, but this season I've will be giving some a try, including Thrive. I first heard of Thrive when Howard Garrett started promoting it, then I saw there was a thread here at TV last year discussing Tomato Thrive. (with some confusion it seems)

[rnewste]

Ray,

Thanks for the link. Not much technical info available at their site to be able to compare / contrast vs. Biota Max or MycoGrow. Did order a (free) sample of their Tomato formula, so will have to do an A/B comparison in a couple of EarthTainers this year.

Raybo

[Stepheninky]

Same also ordered a free sample, so will try and compare its results as well.
I know from my micro brew setup that (at least in water, nutrient solution) bioata max is more biologically active then the myco grow soluble . Though my feeling is that the myco grow has more myco type fungus (that attaches to plant roots) and the bioata max has more tri type fungus and different bacteria so its really hard to use my micro brew as the test. Bioata max though does foam up about 10 x's higher than the Myco Grow product though.

I will mix up my sample (the Tomato one) and give it the same solution and see what it does.

Would love to see a list of whats in it to compare to the other products but as long as it is bio active then it should in theory be fine. The ideal is to give it an environment that it will multiply and if it does then it should do the same in healthy soil.

[RayR]

You're not going to get the whole technical info thing on the formulation of their products, their formulations are proprietary. I can understand that, most companies protect their research, exact formulas and production methods from the prying eyes of their competitors.
I did have a back and forth e-mail conversation with an ABS representative last month and even though the ingredient list on the labels lists the same 4 bacterial strains and 4 Myco strains I was assured that that wasn't the whole picture. Each formulation has up to 18 different strains of beneficial bacteria alone and there are differences between the formulations based on the target plant group. Due to certain regulatory requirements they have to disclose enough information on the product labels to validate the product works as designed but naturally they are not required to give away the whole recipe.

[rnewste]

Ray,

I certainly understand a Company not wanting to reveal the percentages of each ingredient, how it is prepared, etc. but I do find the "contents" information on the MycoGrow and Biota Max website about what is in their products comforting and informative in purchasing their products. I am always leery when a Company doesn't even show their list of ingredients for the consumer to evaluate.

Nevertheless, let's see how the sample trials produce results. If the Thrive product exceeds that of the much less expensive Biota Max or Myco Grow at $6.00 including shipping - then I will be a "fan".

Raybo

[Stepheninky]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Ray,

I certainly understand a Company not wanting to reveal the percentages of each ingredient, how it is prepared, etc. but I do find the "contents" information on the MycoGrow and Biota Max website about what is in their products comforting and informative in purchasing their products. I am always leery when a Company doesn't even show their list of ingredients for the consumer to evaluate.

Nevertheless, let's see how the sample trials produce results. If the Thrive product exceeds that of the much less expensive Biota Max or Myco Grow at $6.00 including shipping - then I will be a "fan".

Raybo

Same here and I agree with Raybo on the ingredients being available not the percentages, If they have a unique strain of microbe those can be patented and protected that way. The Coke I am drinking list the ingredients (not the formula or recipe as that is reasonably protected trade secrets)

[sfmathews]

And I have read on the package suggested usage is like 1 every two weeks or so. I don't understand that. I thought if you 'innoculated' the plant with the mycos, that they would not need to be replaced.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Nevertheless, let's see how the sample trials produce results. If the Thrive product exceeds that of the much less expensive Biota Max or Myco Grow at $6.00 including shipping - then I will be a "fan".
Raybo

Certainly I agree, the results could prove interesting.
When comparing on product and price I see a problem as in comparing apples and oranges.
Biota Max doesn't provide any mycorrhizae itself, from the fungal ingredients I only see only 4 Trichoderma species which function as bio-fungicides. Their whole formulation including the bacteria is more anti-pathogen than anything else.
Myco Grow Soluble looks like a close match to Thrive, containing both beneficial bacteria and Endomycorrhizal fungi. It's cheaper @ $5.95/oz than Thrive is at $10.00-$11.00/16oz bottle but a bottle of Thrive covers 2500sq ft. at the recommended dilution vs. 250sq. ft. for the Myco Grow Soluble.
Am I correct in all this?

[rnewste]

Ray,

Shelf life on these products is extremely critical. Both the Biota Max and MycoGrow are of a portion size that I would use within one Season. For me, having something that covers 10 times the area (plants) that I need to treat does me little good, as saving it for next Season is not a good thing.

BTW, I lived at the end of Transit Road many years ago in Orchard Park, not too far from you.

Raybo

[RayR]

Raybo, then we were practically neighbors!...sort of.

What's the shelf life of Biota Max and MycoGrow?
I know Thrive has a shelf life of 2 years from manufacture, the expiration date is on the bottle. Which should be plenty for 2 seasons. I don't know about the bacteria portion, but they use MycoApply® in their liquid suspension who say that in the 3rd year it will lose 10% effectiveness.

[rnewste]

Ray,

I would take Transit Road up from Orchard Park to the Airport many times. Worked in downtown Buffalo on Seneca St. back in the early 70's.

My pack of Biota Max expires in 2012. Shelf life of the MycoGrow is one year, as I recall. Actinovate also has a one year shelf life.

I think there is a non-linear reduction in "potency" with these products over time.

Raybo

[RayR]

Originally Posted by sfmathews

And I have read on the package suggested usage is like 1 every two weeks or so. I don't understand that. I thought if you 'innoculated' the plant with the mycos, that they would not need to be replaced.

I would guess the answer to that would be reinforcement. From what I've read it take about 3 weeks for a Myco spore to germinate and latch on to a root. As the root system grows, I would think it wouldn't hurt to add more spores to the mix to encourage new colonies to form ASAP. I guess also that it would depend on the condition of your soil to begin with, whether it's healthy with bacterial life or dead as a doornail.

[amideutch]

It seems everybody is jumping on the Myco Band Wagon. I too am leary of companies that don't divulge the ingredients of their products. Saying they are proprietary indicates to me they are trying to hide something.

When comparing on product and price I see a problem as in comparing apples and oranges.
Biota Max doesn't provide any mycorrhizae itself, from the fungal ingredients I only see only 4 Trichoderma species which function as bio-fungicides. Their whole formulation including the bacteria is more anti-pathogen than anything else.

What you don't realize is Bacteria also play a role in growth of the plant and are Microbial Biofertilizers as well. This is why the Biota Max/MycoGrow soluable combination make such a good team. Here is a discription of just one of the bacteria used in Biota Max.

One of the Bacteria in Biota Max that is interesting is Paenibacillus polymyxa. Quoting from Handbook Of Microbial Biofertilizers "P. polymyxa may possess a great variety of properties that are of interest in the development of biofertilizers. The reported properties include N2 fixation, P solubilization, and production of antibiotics, chitinase, and other hydrolytic enzymes, as well as enhancement of soil porosity". Hydrolytic enzymes aid in the formation of the symbiotic relationship formed by Mycorrhiza and the root structure of the plant.

And Ray's head to head grow out of Snow Pea's (one inoculated with Biota Max and the other with MycoGrow Soluable) proved the value of Paenibacillus polymyxa as the Biota Max plant was noticeably taller then the MycoGrow plant. Ami

[RayR]

Ami, I see that Paenibacillus polymyxa is capable of Nitrogen fixation. Is that strain in Biota Max capable of Nitrogen fixation with legumes like Peas? I was wondering if that had something to do with the taller growth.

Also @ Raybo, did you use any legume seed innoculants in that trial?

[rnewste]

Ray,

Here is a photo of a trial I did a year earlier with Snow Peas:



The container on the right was my control, without any inoculation. The center container had MycoGrow applied, and the container on the far left was treated with Actinovate.

Raybo