What to do with early sprouting seedlings in Lg. tray

schill93 · January 14, 2017

I just planted 48 dwarf seeds, and only a few came up so I let them stay and continued to give them more time. However, the early ones are way too leggy now. So I was wondering what you guys do in situations like this.

Last night I wound up spooning out the tall seedlings to transplant in another tray that is under lights, but in doing so, I broke two stems. The two that broke were not Dwarfs.
They were two Burgundy Traveler seeds that I had added. The stems were very thin and fragile. I was able to move the other dwarfs that came up more successfully.

jmsieglaff · January 14, 2017

To me it sounds like you are either not moving your seed tray under lights as soon as they begin to sprout, or the light they are receiving is not intense enough. They need light right away! I sow small cell packs densely so I can move them individually under lights in case I get slower germination with some varieties than others (usually the case).

KarenO · January 14, 2017

As soon as the first one is up, any Cover cones off immediately and the whole tray goes under bright light. The fast ones up are the best and you don't want to delay getting them under lights. The others will come up under the lights.
Don't sacrifice your most vigorous sprouts waiting for slower ones.
KarenO

rhines81 · January 14, 2017

I germinate two ways - seeds put in moist coffee filters placed into a baggie and sowing seed in individual jiffy pots which are placed in trays. Both methods are placed in 80-85F heated area until sprouting.
When a seed sprouts from a coffee filter, I remove it and plant in a Dixie cup about 3/4 full of Pro-mix soil. When a seed in a jiffy/peat pot sprouts, it is removed from the tray, I tear off the mesh bag and plop the whole thing into a Dixie cup and sprinkle in some Promix to fill the voids.
Once in Dixie cups, they get generously watered and placed into a flat tray to receive sunlight (I poke a zillion tiny holes in the Dixie cups in advance to allow drainage). I 'currently' use sunlight instead of grow lights mainly for convenience. Once the plants start to get a little leggy, I fill the remaining 1/4 cup up with Pro-mix (usually after a week). At this point I also use a gentle fan on the plants for several hours a day. When they start to get leggy again (a week or so later), they get transferred with 1/2 of stem buried into Solo cup to grow for another 4-6 weeks with a BBQ skewer for support. Again starting with 3/4 cup Pro-Mix and filling more in a week or two.

schill93 · January 15, 2017

rines81: I can see how what you do would solve this dilemma. I considered going that route, but thought using the cell trays would be quicker.

jmsieglaff and KarenO: I didn't think you were supposed to move your flats under the lights until most sprouted. I use T5 lights and keep them within 2" from the tops so lighting is not the issue. It's the seeds taking all different times to sprout that has me perplexed.

jmsieglaff · January 15, 2017

Like I said I sow my seeds into cell (4 packs) that I label with those little garden white label sticks. As soon as one variety starts to sprout I either move the 4 pack under the lights or with scissors snip of the cell with sprouting seeds and move to lights. Although they can be easy to tip over then. FWIW, I don't use a heat mat, just my kitchen room temp for sprouting--so moving to the lights is only a little cooler anyway.

wildcat62 · January 15, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO

As soon as the first one is up, any Cover cones off immediately and the whole tray goes under bright light. The fast ones up are the best and you don't want to delay getting them under lights. The others will come up under the lights.
Don't sacrifice your most vigorous sprouts waiting for slower ones.
KarenO

Good advice....

schill93 · January 15, 2017

OK, so I got up last night and put them all under lights. I have the cell packs with 6 cells. But I had only one or two germinate in each 6 pack. I never have had this bad germination before. These were all Dwarfs, except for two (which I broke)

oakley · February 14, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO

As soon as the first one is up, any Cover cones off immediately and the whole tray goes under bright light. The fast ones up are the best and you don't want to delay getting them under lights. The others will come up under the lights.
Don't sacrifice your most vigorous sprouts waiting for slower ones.
KarenO

Yes, do this. Or start in small six-packs, one variety per, then move them out of that
tray into a tray under lights.

My peppers started 1.10, one variety per row had saved seeds from Hatch chilies shoot
up real fast along with a row of saved dark red sweets. Others no show for two weeks.
I covered with strips of zip-lock to help keep some moisture in.
(all are up now and happy, phew.)

MissS · February 14, 2017

Sad but true, not all tomato varieties germinate at the same time. I now keep track of how long each variety takes to germinate under my growing conditions, so that I can group those with the same days to germination together to help avoid the problem that you are having. If I do end up sowing multiple varieties with different germination time together, I do as jmsieglaff does. I either move the whole pack into the light or cut the germinating cell out of the pack. If you cut one out it is hard to support, so I just place it in another cell pack until they are big enough to re-plant.

Don't give up too soon on your unsprouted seeds. They just might have a longer germination period to go through. I give mine all 3 weeks before I say that they have failed.

JohnJones · February 14, 2017

As a first time seed starter in 2017, this is turning into an informative thread.

I have started a new grouping of various seeds weekly for the last three weeks. My learning curve is bringing me to the point where I am pretty much replicating what the experienced growers here are advising.

A few thoughts...

- Definitely don't give up too early. My 1st sowing on 1/23 was just a shot to see if I could get seeds to grow. I used a plastic egg container and filled the 12 cells with a few seeds each of 12 different things. 6 tomato varieties (5 saved in 2015 and 1 from a 20¢ pack of Rutgers), 5 herbs from 20¢ packs and Cayenne seeds removed from a pepper I dried in 2015.

Slow going for 10 days. A basil seed popped up in a few days, then a few false starts, then tomatoes started showing after 10 days. Today, 22 days from sowing and under lights are 24 tomato seedlings ranging from ready to transplant to a popup this morning. The other side is nearly barren but for 2 healthy basil seedlings and a lonely parsely sprout. Got work to do on herb starting, but the tomatoes were my focus and I have at least 2 of each variety and all my first time savings produced seedlings. I didn't count seeds, but I probably have about 70% germination with much less than ideal saving and starting techniques and equipment.

- My 2nd sowing on 1/30 was more planned, but still an experiment. Two small 6 cell seed trays with 12 varieties (only 2 types of tomatoes). 15 days in and there is life in (or now out of) 10 of 12 cells.

The funniest (to me) episode were the 6 okra seeds in a small cell which were all up in 24 hours and 3 inches tall in 48 and had to be transplanted at 72 hours. They were 6 inches long top to root bottom. Lesson, okra is a direct sow plant (as anybody with experience will tell you).

Have now transplanted radishes and will be moving lettuces, a few weak beets, dill and mustard tendergreens soon.

At 15 days, 5 of 8 Rutgers seeds are up and healthy at various maturity levels. The older ones are very healthy as they have been under a 6500 Kelvin CFL light I found at HD most of their life. 4 of 9 Cherokee Purple (my saved from a Bonnie's transplant in 2015) are up, but the first was 8 days later than the first Rutgers (from a 20¢ pack).

- 3rd sowing was a 6 cell tray of 6 tomato varieties and 19 seeds which I have limited quantities of. At 8 days no activity yet.

- Definitely use grow lights early after sprouts appear and use selected cover as necessary for slower starters. If you can find a higher Kelvin rated light it seems to make a large difference in vegetative growth, but light and preferably close is very important.

- Keep good notes for future reference as you get better. Especially helpful to try to pair things with similar germination times.

Sorry for the epistle, it kind of became a diary as I kept going. Hope it is some help to someone.

MissS · February 14, 2017

If you keep your seed trays warm 75 - 85 degrees, you will find that you have germination occur faster.

JohnJones · February 14, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissS

If you keep your seed trays warm 75 - 85 degrees, you will find that you have germination occur faster.

I wish the issue with time was easy to figure out. They have rarely been below 75 as they have been inside and in a warm (light not burner) oven or under lights. I think heat mats would help. I also know that two of the seed varieties may be pretty dehydrated as I let them dry up in a jar while saving them (my CP seeds are purple from the juice they dried with). Really didn't expect germination, they are tough buggers.

Maybe a better medium would help. Just used a Jiffy seed starter mix from Wally.

All in all I'm pretty happy. Not going to be spending any money on tomato transplants anymore and lotsa great varieties in my future. No longer beholden to what a local store stocks.

rhines81 · February 14, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJones

Maybe a better medium would help. Just used a Jiffy seed starter mix from Wally.

Really doesn't matter what you start them in ... dog spit, for example ... as long as it is moist and warm. Once they sprout and use up their seed stored nutrients, then you need to look at things like soil chemistry and grow them out in the good stuff.

imp · February 15, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJones

I wish the issue with time was easy to figure out. They have rarely been below 75 as they have been inside and in a warm (light not burner) oven or under lights. I think heat mats would help. I also know that two of the seed varieties may be pretty dehydrated as I let them dry up in a jar while saving them (my CP seeds are purple from the juice they dried with). Really didn't expect germination, they are tough buggers.

Maybe a better medium would help. Just used a Jiffy seed starter mix from Wally.

All in all I'm pretty happy. Not going to be spending any money on tomato transplants anymore and lotsa great varieties in my future. No longer beholden to what a local store stocks.

Seeds should always be rinsed clean and processed properly for good germination - not left with tomato juices on them to dry. That may cause lower germination rates.

January 14, 2017	#1
schill93 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: Nevada Posts: 275	What to do with early sprouting seedlings in Lg. tray I just planted 48 dwarf seeds, and only a few came up so I let them stay and continued to give them more time. However, the early ones are way too leggy now. So I was wondering what you guys do in situations like this. Last night I wound up spooning out the tall seedlings to transplant in another tray that is under lights, but in doing so, I broke two stems. The two that broke were not Dwarfs. They were two Burgundy Traveler seeds that I had added. The stems were very thin and fragile. I was able to move the other dwarfs that came up more successfully.

January 15, 2017	#6
jmsieglaff Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Southern WI Posts: 2,742	Like I said I sow my seeds into cell (4 packs) that I label with those little garden white label sticks. As soon as one variety starts to sprout I either move the 4 pack under the lights or with scissors snip of the cell with sprouting seeds and move to lights. Although they can be easy to tip over then. FWIW, I don't use a heat mat, just my kitchen room temp for sprouting--so moving to the lights is only a little cooler anyway. Last edited by jmsieglaff; January 15, 2017 at 01:05 AM.

February 14, 2017	#10
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,149	Sad but true, not all tomato varieties germinate at the same time. I now keep track of how long each variety takes to germinate under my growing conditions, so that I can group those with the same days to germination together to help avoid the problem that you are having. If I do end up sowing multiple varieties with different germination time together, I do as jmsieglaff does. I either move the whole pack into the light or cut the germinating cell out of the pack. If you cut one out it is hard to support, so I just place it in another cell pack until they are big enough to re-plant. Don't give up too soon on your unsprouted seeds. They just might have a longer germination period to go through. I give mine all 3 weeks before I say that they have failed. __________________ ~ Patti ~

February 14, 2017	#11
JohnJones Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Mississippi Posts: 339	As a first time seed starter in 2017, this is turning into an informative thread. I have started a new grouping of various seeds weekly for the last three weeks. My learning curve is bringing me to the point where I am pretty much replicating what the experienced growers here are advising. A few thoughts... - Definitely don't give up too early. My 1st sowing on 1/23 was just a shot to see if I could get seeds to grow. I used a plastic egg container and filled the 12 cells with a few seeds each of 12 different things. 6 tomato varieties (5 saved in 2015 and 1 from a 20¢ pack of Rutgers), 5 herbs from 20¢ packs and Cayenne seeds removed from a pepper I dried in 2015. Slow going for 10 days. A basil seed popped up in a few days, then a few false starts, then tomatoes started showing after 10 days. Today, 22 days from sowing and under lights are 24 tomato seedlings ranging from ready to transplant to a popup this morning. The other side is nearly barren but for 2 healthy basil seedlings and a lonely parsely sprout. Got work to do on herb starting, but the tomatoes were my focus and I have at least 2 of each variety and all my first time savings produced seedlings. I didn't count seeds, but I probably have about 70% germination with much less than ideal saving and starting techniques and equipment. - My 2nd sowing on 1/30 was more planned, but still an experiment. Two small 6 cell seed trays with 12 varieties (only 2 types of tomatoes). 15 days in and there is life in (or now out of) 10 of 12 cells. The funniest (to me) episode were the 6 okra seeds in a small cell which were all up in 24 hours and 3 inches tall in 48 and had to be transplanted at 72 hours. They were 6 inches long top to root bottom. Lesson, okra is a direct sow plant (as anybody with experience will tell you). Have now transplanted radishes and will be moving lettuces, a few weak beets, dill and mustard tendergreens soon. At 15 days, 5 of 8 Rutgers seeds are up and healthy at various maturity levels. The older ones are very healthy as they have been under a 6500 Kelvin CFL light I found at HD most of their life. 4 of 9 Cherokee Purple (my saved from a Bonnie's transplant in 2015) are up, but the first was 8 days later than the first Rutgers (from a 20¢ pack). - 3rd sowing was a 6 cell tray of 6 tomato varieties and 19 seeds which I have limited quantities of. At 8 days no activity yet. - Definitely use grow lights early after sprouts appear and use selected cover as necessary for slower starters. If you can find a higher Kelvin rated light it seems to make a large difference in vegetative growth, but light and preferably close is very important. - Keep good notes for future reference as you get better. Especially helpful to try to pair things with similar germination times. Sorry for the epistle, it kind of became a diary as I kept going. Hope it is some help to someone. Last edited by JohnJones; February 14, 2017 at 03:53 PM.

February 14, 2017	#12
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,149	If you keep your seed trays warm 75 - 85 degrees, you will find that you have germination occur faster. __________________ ~ Patti ~

January 14, 2017	#3
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	As soon as the first one is up, any Cover cones off immediately and the whole tray goes under bright light. The fast ones up are the best and you don't want to delay getting them under lights. The others will come up under the lights. Don't sacrifice your most vigorous sprouts waiting for slower ones. KarenO

January 14, 2017	#4
rhines81 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Zone 5A, Poconos Posts: 959	I germinate two ways - seeds put in moist coffee filters placed into a baggie and sowing seed in individual jiffy pots which are placed in trays. Both methods are placed in 80-85F heated area until sprouting. When a seed sprouts from a coffee filter, I remove it and plant in a Dixie cup about 3/4 full of Pro-mix soil. When a seed in a jiffy/peat pot sprouts, it is removed from the tray, I tear off the mesh bag and plop the whole thing into a Dixie cup and sprinkle in some Promix to fill the voids. Once in Dixie cups, they get generously watered and placed into a flat tray to receive sunlight (I poke a zillion tiny holes in the Dixie cups in advance to allow drainage). I 'currently' use sunlight instead of grow lights mainly for convenience. Once the plants start to get a little leggy, I fill the remaining 1/4 cup up with Pro-mix (usually after a week). At this point I also use a gentle fan on the plants for several hours a day. When they start to get leggy again (a week or so later), they get transferred with 1/2 of stem buried into Solo cup to grow for another 4-6 weeks with a BBQ skewer for support. Again starting with 3/4 cup Pro-Mix and filling more in a week or two.