bee/wasp identification help

maxjohnson · February 5, 2017

This is not a pest, but I thought I might as well ask here. Just curious, they seems docile and non-stinging, and attracts to the tomato plants (maybe for the caterpillars). They don't make buzzing noises.

Worth1 · February 5, 2017

It is a wasp that people mistake for a yellow jacket.
IF it has a paper nest in the air and not in the ground.
Worth

bower · February 5, 2017

I agree... looks like a paper wasp. They are predators on insect pests, so perhaps they're keeping your plants safe.

I read about these last season as I had several nests close to the house and garden. They said move the nest if you must but don't destroy it, as these are not the same ones that attack your ham sandwich! Those obnoxious wasps are the ones that nest in the ground. The paper wasps are strictly insect predators and usually will only sting if they feel they or the nest is threatened.

So there was one nest I couldn't remove, stuck under the ledge of a big old washtub I had planted lettuce in, and close to my door and also my outdoor rows of tomatoes. I decided to just learn to live with it, don't disturb and hope for the best. I was really pleased because I had zero problems with these dive bombing or harrassing me as I watered and tended the plants.

Only one day I got stung. I was fussing over the tomato plants a lot that day, but also, I was having a smoke out there as I hung about looking at the plants. Did not get a wasp in my face, but the critter stung me on the back where I was bending over. I didn't feel it at the time but only discovered it later - nasty welts. So they can be sneaky and retaliate for imaginary harm - I was not out to smoke their nest! But overall I liked their behavior, just quietly going about their business. They also ate the heck out of problem ants that were getting in the greenhouse and I had no more coming by the season's end. A good job!

Spike2 · February 5, 2017

I am very familiar with those. There is a whole classification and several types of those. From large to small and a variety of colors. They are Nopes. Nope I don't want them around me. Nope they are not cute, fuzzy and friendly. Nope I don't want stung. NOPE NOPE NOPE >,< I can deal with spiders and snakes no problem but not a fan of Nopes. *hysterical shivers*

txtstorm · February 8, 2017

Paper wasps and hornets tend to hold their wings separated and roll them lengthwise a bit when they land. They don't cover the abdomen with flattened, overlapping wings. But, a moth does. Also, that's awful fuzzy to be paper wasp or a hornet. Some of the wingless wasp species are very fuzzy, but they don't resemble paper wasps or hornets, they look more like large ants.

I can't see it in the picture, but if the distal margins of the wings look a little 'frayed', that's another indicator it's a moth. I'd love to see more photos if you can get them!

Cheers,

Adam

maxjohnson · February 10, 2017

I thought moth are more solitary. These comes out as a group in the morning. They seems to make a mating dance by circling each other.

bower · February 10, 2017

Actually Max, looking again I wonder if it is a bee?

Afaik, a key identifier between bees vs wasps is that bees are furry, but the amount of 'fur' or 'hairiness' can actually vary a lot, also which parts are 'furry' or not. Just browsed some wasp pictures, and none of them have hairy legs like your pet there. Nor the bit of fur on the abdomen, although it is slight compared to some types.
Shape wise, it looks like a wasp, but there are bees that have more of that shape too ie more wasp looking but still a bee.
I was amazed to read about so many kinds of bees - that would fit with the gentle behavior and 'dancing' too.

Here is a website with some bee identification info and pictures.
http://www.bumblebeewatch.org/app/#/species/profile

Since you have pictures, you can find out more by submitting a "sighting", when you do that they will take you through a proper 'key' that should tell you what species it is at the end.
That is, if it is in fact a bee.

Some bees have white eyes, as it looks like in your pic. I never knew that but found it out bumbling around on that site.

maxjohnson · February 20, 2017

In real life they are silvery or light grey zebra striped, not yellowish. They seem to speed around like flies without making noises and not slow or buzzing like regular bees. Doesn't seem to do any pollen collecting. In any case, I like them.

I also have a decent amount of green orchid bee and they like the tomato flowers most.

bower · February 20, 2017

Lovely pic... the paper wasps around here, which look similar, are also super quiet fliers. You wouldn't know they're there.
Bumblebees in my garden make such a din, I've been woken by them on summer mornings with the upstairs window open.
The standard obnoxious yellow jacket wasp here, which looks like the paper wasp too, also makes a noisy flight but you can tell from the sound it's not a bumble, quite different. When I hear those I run away.

txtstorm · February 21, 2017

Thanks for the new pic. This one's a stumper. I'm going to run it by the iNaturalist community and see if someone has an ID.

Best,

Adam

MissS · February 21, 2017

It is a wasp. It could be Vespula germanica or the common wasp Vespula vulgaris.

download.jpg

This is a photo of V. germanica

Worth1 · February 21, 2017

Like I said it is a wasp as you have shown.
I have thousands of them at my place.

Worth

maxjohnson · February 21, 2017

Found the answer after I asked on BugGuide. http://bugguide.net/node/view/10199

It's a scoliid wasp, which prey on beetles larvae, which pretty much explains everything since I have a big problem with grubs in my soil.

txtstorm · February 22, 2017

Nice! Glad you found an answer!

PhilaGardener · February 22, 2017

So it's a friend, with a possible temper!

Wasps patrol my garden and do a great job preying on cabbage white caterpillars. I have plenty of whites flying most years, but only rarely have a problem. I hope that continues!

February 5, 2017	#2
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	It is a wasp that people mistake for a yellow jacket. IF it has a paper nest in the air and not in the ground. Worth

February 5, 2017	#3
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	I agree... looks like a paper wasp. They are predators on insect pests, so perhaps they're keeping your plants safe. I read about these last season as I had several nests close to the house and garden. They said move the nest if you must but don't destroy it, as these are not the same ones that attack your ham sandwich! Those obnoxious wasps are the ones that nest in the ground. The paper wasps are strictly insect predators and usually will only sting if they feel they or the nest is threatened. So there was one nest I couldn't remove, stuck under the ledge of a big old washtub I had planted lettuce in, and close to my door and also my outdoor rows of tomatoes. I decided to just learn to live with it, don't disturb and hope for the best. I was really pleased because I had zero problems with these dive bombing or harrassing me as I watered and tended the plants. Only one day I got stung. I was fussing over the tomato plants a lot that day, but also, I was having a smoke out there as I hung about looking at the plants. Did not get a wasp in my face, but the critter stung me on the back where I was bending over. I didn't feel it at the time but only discovered it later - nasty welts. So they can be sneaky and retaliate for imaginary harm - I was not out to smoke their nest! But overall I liked their behavior, just quietly going about their business. They also ate the heck out of problem ants that were getting in the greenhouse and I had no more coming by the season's end. A good job!

February 5, 2017	#4
Spike2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 992	I am very familiar with those. There is a whole classification and several types of those. From large to small and a variety of colors. They are Nopes. Nope I don't want them around me. Nope they are not cute, fuzzy and friendly. Nope I don't want stung. NOPE NOPE NOPE >,< I can deal with spiders and snakes no problem but not a fan of Nopes. hysterical shivers

February 8, 2017	#5
txtstorm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 54	Paper wasps and hornets tend to hold their wings separated and roll them lengthwise a bit when they land. They don't cover the abdomen with flattened, overlapping wings. But, a moth does. Also, that's awful fuzzy to be paper wasp or a hornet. Some of the wingless wasp species are very fuzzy, but they don't resemble paper wasps or hornets, they look more like large ants. I can't see it in the picture, but if the distal margins of the wings look a little 'frayed', that's another indicator it's a moth. I'd love to see more photos if you can get them! Cheers, Adam

February 10, 2017	#6
maxjohnson Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: OH 6a Posts: 592	I thought moth are more solitary. These comes out as a group in the morning. They seems to make a mating dance by circling each other.

February 20, 2017	#9
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Lovely pic... the paper wasps around here, which look similar, are also super quiet fliers. You wouldn't know they're there. Bumblebees in my garden make such a din, I've been woken by them on summer mornings with the upstairs window open. The standard obnoxious yellow jacket wasp here, which looks like the paper wasp too, also makes a noisy flight but you can tell from the sound it's not a bumble, quite different. When I hear those I run away.

February 21, 2017	#10
txtstorm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 54	Thanks for the new pic. This one's a stumper. I'm going to run it by the iNaturalist community and see if someone has an ID. Best, Adam

February 22, 2017	#14
txtstorm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 54	Nice! Glad you found an answer!

February 22, 2017	#15
PhilaGardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Near Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,940	So it's a friend, with a possible temper! Wasps patrol my garden and do a great job preying on cabbage white caterpillars. I have plenty of whites flying most years, but only rarely have a problem. I hope that continues!