Why not grow hybrids instead of heirlooms?

gourmetgardener · February 17, 2015

I notice on these forums that there is a lot of talk about heirlooms. I have tried growing both, but I find that most heirlooms succumb to diseases readily, have poor fruit set, and poor keeping qualities.

I would like to know what keeps people interested in heirlooms.

KarenO · February 17, 2015

As a home gardener, it's all about flavour and variety for me. I don't have much disease in my area. I also like to save OP seed and collect many different varieties. "If you have Seen one red regular leaf hybrid beefsteak, you have seen em all"

All the recessive genes are what makes heirloom OP tomatoes more interesting to me.

KarenO

Fusion_power · February 17, 2015

Heirlooms have traits that are unavailable in hybrids. The most important is flavor. If you want a typical cardboard grocery store tomato, grow most any hybrid. If you want a juicy ripe delicious home grown tomato, grow heirlooms. There are exceptions. By and large, Big Beef and Ramapo are very good flavored hybrids. You are correct that there can be more problems with heirlooms, but I have plenty of heirloom varieties that outproduce all but a handful of hybrids.

Sun City Linda · February 17, 2015

Like others, I grow for my own use and taste is the most important factor. I don't have a lot of disease pressure where I live either. I do grow a few hybrids, like Sungold and Brandy Boy also.

FLRedHeart · February 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by gourmetgardener

I notice on these forums that there is a lot of talk about heirlooms. I have tried growing both, but I find that most heirlooms succumb to diseases readily, have poor fruit set, and poor keeping qualities.

I would like to know what keeps people interested in heirlooms.

Heirlooms aren't for everyone, but, where to start?

1) Open Pollinated varieties can be saved and grow true
2) No need to maintain parent lines and possibly lose the hybrid cultivar
3) Variety of shape, texture and flavor viewed as unavailable in hybrids
4) Nostalgia, the impression of preserving a piece of the past
5) Price premium when sold due to consumer perceptions of heirlooms
6) Personal satisfaction to successfully grow challenging tomatoes
7) Maximum yield not always important for the home gardener growing more tomatoes than they can eat

SharonRossy · February 17, 2015

I'm growing one or two hybrids, but last year I grew Brandy Boy and I didn't have great results. My heirloom tomatoes did much better and flavor is outstanding. Sun gold and sun sugar will always have a place in my garden.

luigiwu · February 17, 2015

The variety and flavor. Also it makes sense to me to grow things that normally would cost $$$ in the stores (and harder/impossible to find) versus typical hybrid tomatoes that are everywhere and cheap.

Dutch · February 17, 2015

Hybrids are made from OP's so why wouldn't you just grow the OP(heirlooms).
Dutch

LindyAdele · February 18, 2015

7 years ago, I didn't think I really liked tomatoes. Sure, I ate them in salads and salsas, I even grew two or three plants in my garden,but could take or leave them. I tried the nursery tomato starts the proclaimed they were sweet, best tasting, exceptional, etc. They were all exactly alike. Then one summer I ate a strange pale yellow cherry tomato from my CSA box, and I nearly cried at how delicious they were! So much Flavour! It was like I knew that this is what a tomato was truly supposed to taste like. I saved seeds from that yellow cherry and grew it the next summer alongside plants from the nursery. The weird yellow tomato was earlier, tastier and produced more than the nursery starts, and I had no idea what I was doing! Now I have given up hybrids, and grow more thana dozen heirlooms/op tomatoes. I have discovered a fabulous community that shares seeds, knowledge and stories. I feel connected to agricultural history through passing down of varieties, especially those likely grown by my Crimean ancestors.I feel rich beyond measure looking at the large bin of seeds I saved myself that promises beautiful harvests for many years to come. I have learned about plant biodiversity and Am passing down that knowledge to my children, who know what labour goes into backyard vegetables, and that tomatoes don't have to be red, nor carrots orange. Not to mention the beauty of ribbed multicoloured or striped fruit! Heirlooms give me a sense of community, connectedness, creativity and culinary delight that hybrids simply cannot offer.

jmsieglaff · February 18, 2015

From someone that grew up eating hybrid red cherry tomatoes as well as hybrid red globe/beefsteak tomatoes, I always liked tomatoes. The garden fresh tomatoes were loads better than the s**t at the grocery store. When I started gardening for myself that's what I grew. Then one day I was at a greenhouse and was talking to the guy working there about tomatoes. He asked me, have you ever grown this one? It was Sungold F1, I said no. He said try it you won't regret it. I've grown it every year since. He also asked me if I grew Black Krim before, again I said no. He said try it, you won't regret it. I've grown it every year since. I've grown those tomatoes every year since because I was amazed at the flavor of both--how different they were (from anything I had grown and from each other), how delicious they were.

So 1 wonderful hybrid and 1 wonderful heirloom peaked my interest in the variety of tomato flavors. Which has lead to a constant trial of new varieties--generally heirlooms because I enjoy the variety of flavors--all a bit unique, but all quite delicious.

I think a unique, wonderful delicious hybrid is a rare tomato. A unique, wonderful delicious heirloom is a common tomato. Hence I like to grow new (to me) heirlooms (and old favorites).

I also do like saving seeds as other have mentioned.

I do not find in my garden (with being in the north lacks most soil-borne pathogens and only foliage fungal issues present themselves) any difference in disease resistance between the hybrid I grow and the heirlooms.

Production? Sungold F1 is a very robust, productive plant. But I grew an OP cherry tomato this year that out produced everything in the garden and it wasn't close.

PA_Julia · February 18, 2015

I grow approx.25 plants for size competition each season. The overwhelming majority of these are hybrids.
I don't do anything else with these tomatoes than grow them for size then seed, they don't get eaten because there is only one tomato allowed to grow per plant.
I grow another ten or so plants each season that are heirlooms. I grow heirlooms because I absolutely love the history, the taste and the complexity of growing them.

People who grow heirlooms tend not to be sitting on the sidelines watching them grow and waiting for a ripe tomato. They take part in their nurturing and their protection in order to assist in the creation of their fruit.

I spend copious amounts of time each day of the growing season inspecting leaves and the overall health of the plant in order to catch any disease as early as possible.
Hybrid tomatoes for eating are just fine but the lack of variety and them being devoid of any personality causes me to ignore them.

If you don't have any time to spend in a garden, want something you grew so you can have a tomato or two to eat throughout the season then hybrids are for you.

If you approach tomato growing as an art form and find satisfaction in the complexity of growing heirlooms then heirlooms are for you.

luigiwu · February 18, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmsieglaff

I think a unique, wonderful delicious hybrid is a rare tomato. A unique, wonderful delicious heirloom is a common tomato.

But I grew an OP cherry tomato this year that out produced everything in the garden and it wasn't close.

I enjoyed reading your post - how you summarized Hybrids and Heirlooms was well put.

Can I what is this OP cherry that outproduced Sungold F1? Thanks!

PaulF · February 18, 2015

As for me, I had the opposite experience with hybrid vs heirloom. I grew hybrids since beginning gardening in 1971. I grew my father's varieties: the bigs, betters, boys and girls and some others purchased from the hardware store. It was a race to see how many ripe tomatoes that could be picked before the plants all died from disease.

And then, they all tasted the same; very tart and very tough skinned (that's the keeping ability) No wonder no one in the family cared whether we had tomatoes or not.

In 1998, I discovered heirlooms (me and Al Gore made our discoveries about the same time...him with the internet and me with real tomatoes) and there has been no looking back at the flavorless, disease ridden cookie cutter round red excuse for tomatoes.

I can't say there have no diseased plants, but very few. Harvest has done very well for a home gardener and there are ripe tomatoes from whenever they start to ripen until frost. This year will mark having grown my 500th different variety. In that time there have been a few spitters and some ho-hummers but many more successes. A hobby grown to an obsession. Maybe you have not grown the right varieties; climb on board the heirloom train, it's a fun ride.

jmsieglaff · February 18, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by luigiwu

I enjoyed reading your post - how you summarized Hybrids and Heirlooms was well put.

Can I what is this OP cherry that outproduced Sungold F1? Thanks!

Thanks! The cherry is my experiment PL yellow cherry (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=32115). The seed was saved from a purchased tomato. It grew like mad and produced like crazy, I've saved seeds and will grow it this year and I've shared seeds with a couple folks here. The flavor was good, not great, texture was fairly firm, but the firmness made it a great tomato to use in my balsamic, mozzarella, olive oil basil tomato 'salad'. The salad held up well--made for a nice addition to my lunches for a couple of months while the plant produced.

Redbaron · February 18, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by gourmetgardener

I notice on these forums that there is a lot of talk about heirlooms. I have tried growing both, but I find that most heirlooms succumb to diseases readily, have poor fruit set, and poor keeping qualities.

I would like to know what keeps people interested in heirlooms.

The answer is in your nickname: gourmet.

February 17, 2015	#1
gourmetgardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Canada (Zone 6b) Posts: 119	Why not grow hybrids instead of heirlooms? I notice on these forums that there is a lot of talk about heirlooms. I have tried growing both, but I find that most heirlooms succumb to diseases readily, have poor fruit set, and poor keeping qualities. I would like to know what keeps people interested in heirlooms.

February 17, 2015	#7
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	The variety and flavor. Also it makes sense to me to grow things that normally would cost $$$ in the stores (and harder/impossible to find) versus typical hybrid tomatoes that are everywhere and cheap. __________________ Subirrigated Container gardening (RGGS) in NY, Zone 7!

February 17, 2015	#8
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Hybrids are made from OP's so why wouldn't you just grow the OP(heirlooms). Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

February 18, 2015	#10
jmsieglaff Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Southern WI Posts: 2,742	From someone that grew up eating hybrid red cherry tomatoes as well as hybrid red globe/beefsteak tomatoes, I always liked tomatoes. The garden fresh tomatoes were loads better than the s*t at the grocery store. When I started gardening for myself that's what I grew. Then one day I was at a greenhouse and was talking to the guy working there about tomatoes. He asked me, have you ever grown this one? It was Sungold F1, I said no. He said try it you won't regret it. I've grown it every year since. He also asked me if I grew Black Krim before, again I said no. He said try it, you won't regret it. I've grown it every year since. I've grown those tomatoes every year since because I was amazed at the flavor of both--how different they were (from anything I had grown and from each other), how delicious they were. So 1 wonderful hybrid and 1 wonderful heirloom peaked my interest in the variety of tomato flavors. Which has lead to a constant trial of new varieties--generally heirlooms because I enjoy the variety of flavors--all a bit unique, but all quite delicious. I think a unique, wonderful delicious hybrid is a rare tomato. A unique, wonderful delicious heirloom is a common tomato. Hence I like to grow new (to me) heirlooms (and old favorites). I also do like saving seeds as other have mentioned. I do not find in my garden (with being in the north lacks most soil-borne pathogens and only foliage fungal issues present themselves) any difference in disease resistance between the hybrid I grow and the heirlooms. Production? Sungold F1 is a very robust, productive plant. But I grew an OP cherry tomato this year that out produced everything in the garden and it wasn't close. Last edited by jmsieglaff; February 18, 2015 at 12:14 AM.*

February 18, 2015	#11
PA_Julia Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Princeton, Ky Zone 7A Posts: 2,208	I grow approx.25 plants for size competition each season. The overwhelming majority of these are hybrids. I don't do anything else with these tomatoes than grow them for size then seed, they don't get eaten because there is only one tomato allowed to grow per plant. I grow another ten or so plants each season that are heirlooms. I grow heirlooms because I absolutely love the history, the taste and the complexity of growing them. People who grow heirlooms tend not to be sitting on the sidelines watching them grow and waiting for a ripe tomato. They take part in their nurturing and their protection in order to assist in the creation of their fruit. I spend copious amounts of time each day of the growing season inspecting leaves and the overall health of the plant in order to catch any disease as early as possible. Hybrid tomatoes for eating are just fine but the lack of variety and them being devoid of any personality causes me to ignore them. If you don't have any time to spend in a garden, want something you grew so you can have a tomato or two to eat throughout the season then hybrids are for you. If you approach tomato growing as an art form and find satisfaction in the complexity of growing heirlooms then heirlooms are for you. __________________ Personal Best- 4.46 LB Big Zac 2013

February 17, 2015	#2
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	As a home gardener, it's all about flavour and variety for me. I don't have much disease in my area. I also like to save OP seed and collect many different varieties. "If you have Seen one red regular leaf hybrid beefsteak, you have seen em all" All the recessive genes are what makes heirloom OP tomatoes more interesting to me. KarenO

February 17, 2015	#3
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Heirlooms have traits that are unavailable in hybrids. The most important is flavor. If you want a typical cardboard grocery store tomato, grow most any hybrid. If you want a juicy ripe delicious home grown tomato, grow heirlooms. There are exceptions. By and large, Big Beef and Ramapo are very good flavored hybrids. You are correct that there can be more problems with heirlooms, but I have plenty of heirloom varieties that outproduce all but a handful of hybrids.

February 17, 2015	#4
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	Like others, I grow for my own use and taste is the most important factor. I don't have a lot of disease pressure where I live either. I do grow a few hybrids, like Sungold and Brandy Boy also.

February 17, 2015	#6
SharonRossy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,140	I'm growing one or two hybrids, but last year I grew Brandy Boy and I didn't have great results. My heirloom tomatoes did much better and flavor is outstanding. Sun gold and sun sugar will always have a place in my garden.

February 18, 2015	#9
LindyAdele Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 323	7 years ago, I didn't think I really liked tomatoes. Sure, I ate them in salads and salsas, I even grew two or three plants in my garden,but could take or leave them. I tried the nursery tomato starts the proclaimed they were sweet, best tasting, exceptional, etc. They were all exactly alike. Then one summer I ate a strange pale yellow cherry tomato from my CSA box, and I nearly cried at how delicious they were! So much Flavour! It was like I knew that this is what a tomato was truly supposed to taste like. I saved seeds from that yellow cherry and grew it the next summer alongside plants from the nursery. The weird yellow tomato was earlier, tastier and produced more than the nursery starts, and I had no idea what I was doing! Now I have given up hybrids, and grow more thana dozen heirlooms/op tomatoes. I have discovered a fabulous community that shares seeds, knowledge and stories. I feel connected to agricultural history through passing down of varieties, especially those likely grown by my Crimean ancestors.I feel rich beyond measure looking at the large bin of seeds I saved myself that promises beautiful harvests for many years to come. I have learned about plant biodiversity and Am passing down that knowledge to my children, who know what labour goes into backyard vegetables, and that tomatoes don't have to be red, nor carrots orange. Not to mention the beauty of ribbed multicoloured or striped fruit! Heirlooms give me a sense of community, connectedness, creativity and culinary delight that hybrids simply cannot offer.

February 18, 2015	#13
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,295	As for me, I had the opposite experience with hybrid vs heirloom. I grew hybrids since beginning gardening in 1971. I grew my father's varieties: the bigs, betters, boys and girls and some others purchased from the hardware store. It was a race to see how many ripe tomatoes that could be picked before the plants all died from disease. And then, they all tasted the same; very tart and very tough skinned (that's the keeping ability) No wonder no one in the family cared whether we had tomatoes or not. In 1998, I discovered heirlooms (me and Al Gore made our discoveries about the same time...him with the internet and me with real tomatoes) and there has been no looking back at the flavorless, disease ridden cookie cutter round red excuse for tomatoes. I can't say there have no diseased plants, but very few. Harvest has done very well for a home gardener and there are ripe tomatoes from whenever they start to ripen until frost. This year will mark having grown my 500th different variety. In that time there have been a few spitters and some ho-hummers but many more successes. A hobby grown to an obsession. Maybe you have not grown the right varieties; climb on board the heirloom train, it's a fun ride. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.