cover crop- crimping vs tilling winter rye vs tilling

pete · November 7, 2009

I am curious if anyone uses winter rye as a cover crop and crimps the rye in the spring and then plants tomatoes 3+ weeks later in the dead matt of winter rye? I have seen this used on a large scale on the internet but was considering trying on a small scale. I have used winter rye for years as a cover crop, but I always mowed then tilled it back in thus destoying the sod layer that may help prevent weeds and diseases.

Barbee · November 7, 2009

In our farm operation, we use winter rye as a cover crop every year. We mow it and bale the straw. The soybeans get planted right in the rye stubble.
On a small garden scale, I would think you could do the same thing only instead of baling the straw, you could leave it lay for mulch, planting right thru it.

cottonpicker · November 7, 2009

I agree with Barbee!!!! There was an recent article in Mother Earth magazine espousing this very method.
LarryD

TZ-OH6 · November 7, 2009

What is involved in crimping it over to kill it? I have rye planted in my garden plots, which I cannot get a mower into. I had planned on either using Roundup or cut it down with weedeater/machete/sickle to kill it for top mulch next spring.

Barbee · November 7, 2009

The crimper rolls it into different directions and sort of dents it to kill it. It rolls it into a pattern, leaving something similar to a wind row of bare area and the planter comes in and sows the crop into that bare area. In a garden situation, if you were planting row crops, like corn, beans, etc, then you might try to make one out of a lawn roller.
Personally, I'd mow it or if your mower won't work, weed eat it or rent a bush hog. You could burn it down with Roundup but you're still going to have to mow it somehow.

Farmer Matt · November 8, 2009

I am planting winter rye at the next rain, in the spring I am going to disk it, plow then rotiller.

It works great.

Matt

PaulF · November 8, 2009

I have planted winter rye for the first time this year. It was sown the first of October and the weather since our first killing frost has been in the upper fifties to the mid seventies. There has been good germination but not a great amount of growth. When does rye really take off so I can see it will need to be cut, raked, baled; maybe mine is a low growing form and will be tilled under in the early spring.

Barbee · November 8, 2009

You want a nice short growth before the winter hits. About as tall as an overgrown lawn. It takes off early in the spring and can get very tall if you let it. We had some last year that was taller than me. I'm 5'3" For a garden situation, I'd cut it about 3 weeks before your planting time.

pete · November 8, 2009

Has anyone planted toms in a crimped only winter rye stand, not mowed- only crimped, vs. a mowed and row tilled stand? I'm going to try crimping on a very mature (gone to seed for a while) winter rye stand next year. I planted rye Oct 7 and it is 12"-15" tall, thick and bright greeen!

If you want the max nitrogen out of this crop then plan to till it in right before it goes to no more than 10% seed. Animal grass hays and alfalfa are harvested like this to maximize the nutrition of the forages. I have heard that it is best to till it in 2-3 weeks before planting but I have had luck mowing, tilling, and planting the same day(I just can't help putting a few in as long as I still have back ups!!!).

All your input greatly appreciated

creister · November 9, 2009

I have planted a rye/vetch cover crop for the past 5 years. I just plant my tomatoes in the mulch. I cut the cc down with a weed eater, and leave the residue as a mulch. I cover that with shredded leaves. Usually, by the time the summer is over, the cut cover crop residue has vanished under the leaf mulch.

pete · November 9, 2009

Creister, do you think it helps avoid fungal spot problems on the lower leaves?

I had a bad year with crud creeping up from the lower leaves and would like to minimze it for next year by leaving a mulch barrier in place. I used leaves this year around my plants and did not have much luck. we also had a very wet cool summer.

pete

creister · November 10, 2009

Pete,

If you mean mulching the soil, yes, it should. I also put down horticultural corn meal on top of the cut cover crop before the leaves. Horticultural corn meal is an anti fungal. Usually, the lower leaves die first. Once a plant is around 3ft. high, I start removing the lower leaves regardless.

Wet years tend to cause more problems in general. I have been fighting black spot on my roses, as we seem to be wetter than normal.

Do you shredd your leaves before putting them down, I do. More to keep them in place and speed decomposition.

pete · November 10, 2009

Creister

I did mow the dead leaves this year. Other years I've used grass clippings. The corn meal is a good idea, I'll try that next year. I do "limb-up" my toms as much as possible. How much corn meal per plant- a cup or two?

What support system do you use? I use concrete wire cages and am happy with them.

creister · November 10, 2009

Pete,

I also use concrete wire cages for support. I usually put the corn meal out all over the surface of my garden, and then cover with leaf mulch. Last year I switched to 4x12 raised beds. I used 3-4 cups of corn meal spread over the entire surface of the bed.

November 7, 2009	#1
pete Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: cincinnati Posts: 202	cover crop- crimping vs tilling winter rye vs tilling I am curious if anyone uses winter rye as a cover crop and crimps the rye in the spring and then plants tomatoes 3+ weeks later in the dead matt of winter rye? I have seen this used on a large scale on the internet but was considering trying on a small scale. I have used winter rye for years as a cover crop, but I always mowed then tilled it back in thus destoying the sod layer that may help prevent weeds and diseases.

November 7, 2009	#2
Barbee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 1,818	In our farm operation, we use winter rye as a cover crop every year. We mow it and bale the straw. The soybeans get planted right in the rye stubble. On a small garden scale, I would think you could do the same thing only instead of baling the straw, you could leave it lay for mulch, planting right thru it. __________________ *Barbee*

November 7, 2009	#3
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	I agree with Barbee!!!! There was an recent article in Mother Earth magazine espousing this very method. LarryD __________________ "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause". Victor Hugo

November 7, 2009	#5
Barbee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 1,818	The crimper rolls it into different directions and sort of dents it to kill it. It rolls it into a pattern, leaving something similar to a wind row of bare area and the planter comes in and sows the crop into that bare area. In a garden situation, if you were planting row crops, like corn, beans, etc, then you might try to make one out of a lawn roller. Personally, I'd mow it or if your mower won't work, weed eat it or rent a bush hog. You could burn it down with Roundup but you're still going to have to mow it somehow. __________________ *Barbee*

November 8, 2009	#7
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,296	I have planted winter rye for the first time this year. It was sown the first of October and the weather since our first killing frost has been in the upper fifties to the mid seventies. There has been good germination but not a great amount of growth. When does rye really take off so I can see it will need to be cut, raked, baled; maybe mine is a low growing form and will be tilled under in the early spring. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.

November 7, 2009	#4
TZ-OH6 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mid-Ohio Posts: 848	What is involved in crimping it over to kill it? I have rye planted in my garden plots, which I cannot get a mower into. I had planned on either using Roundup or cut it down with weedeater/machete/sickle to kill it for top mulch next spring.

November 8, 2009	#6
Farmer Matt Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Tracy, California Posts: 63	I am planting winter rye at the next rain, in the spring I am going to disk it, plow then rotiller. It works great. Matt

November 8, 2009	#9
pete Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: cincinnati Posts: 202	thanks Has anyone planted toms in a crimped only winter rye stand, not mowed- only crimped, vs. a mowed and row tilled stand? I'm going to try crimping on a very mature (gone to seed for a while) winter rye stand next year. I planted rye Oct 7 and it is 12"-15" tall, thick and bright greeen! If you want the max nitrogen out of this crop then plan to till it in right before it goes to no more than 10% seed. Animal grass hays and alfalfa are harvested like this to maximize the nutrition of the forages. I have heard that it is best to till it in 2-3 weeks before planting but I have had luck mowing, tilling, and planting the same day(I just can't help putting a few in as long as I still have back ups!!!). All your input greatly appreciated

November 9, 2009	#10
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	I have planted a rye/vetch cover crop for the past 5 years. I just plant my tomatoes in the mulch. I cut the cc down with a weed eater, and leave the residue as a mulch. I cover that with shredded leaves. Usually, by the time the summer is over, the cut cover crop residue has vanished under the leaf mulch.

November 10, 2009	#12
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	Pete, If you mean mulching the soil, yes, it should. I also put down horticultural corn meal on top of the cut cover crop before the leaves. Horticultural corn meal is an anti fungal. Usually, the lower leaves die first. Once a plant is around 3ft. high, I start removing the lower leaves regardless. Wet years tend to cause more problems in general. I have been fighting black spot on my roses, as we seem to be wetter than normal. Do you shredd your leaves before putting them down, I do. More to keep them in place and speed decomposition.