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[beeman]

What the USDA doesn't want you to see??

http://www.non-gmoreport.com/article...f_GM_crops.php

Scary stuff.
Here is the official paper.http://bit.ly/6gauyk

[amideutch]

beeman, thanks for posting. Ami

[brokenbar]

There is extensive use of "Roundup Ready" alfalfa seed here. Foxtail is HUGE problem in Wyoming and ranchers and farmers are choosing the Roundup Ready seed over any other varieties offered. As we are all flood/gated pipe irrigated, runoff from fields is considerable. The drainage runs right back to the irrigation canals. If you just look at fertilizer...those on "the end" of the water dsitribution system are loosing airable soil because of nitrate build-up in their soil. No easy answers but we are chemically shooting ourselves in the foot. It should be noted that with the buying up of family-owned and operated farms by corporate giants like Del Monte and Monsanto (they now own nearly 1/2 of all food stuff producing land in the US) we will see more and more chemical use because for the corporations, it's about increasing yields on smaller tracts at the least possible cost. And lets not leave out the ever-increasing genetic engineering.

[mjc]

Herbicide resistant weeds is enough to make them bad in my book...

[Worth1]

Look guys GM crops are for the betterment of man.

Sure we will have some stumbling blocks along the way. Our children may be born with furry little puppy dog ears or maybe feathers for hair but we will get past all of this.

What I want is a beef steak tomato that will set fruit in 100 + weather.

Worth

[brokenbar]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Look guys GM crops are for the betterment of man.

Sure we will have some stumbling blocks along the way. Our children may be born with furry little puppy dog ears or maybe feathers for hair but we will get past all of this.

What I want is a beef steak tomato that will set fruit in 100 + weather.

Worth

Or in twenty below! Ten pounds apiece, TOTALLY unassailable by disease or bugs, unlimited shelf life and superb flavor..I am willing to have three ears, no nose and be bald....

[mjc]

Better living through chemistry...

[RiverRat]

Not only does glyphosate affect weeds, but apparently herpetologists are finding impacts on anuran (frog and toad) populations in the field, although apparently not in the laboratory. Here's an article about this issue:

http://www.conservationmagazine.org/...tland-species/

and here's a more popularized version:

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/200...runc_sys.shtml

[BlackestKrim]

The thing people often don't mention about the "roundup-ready" crops is that the GM crops allow a much milder pesticide to be used than the cocktail of more pernicious pesticides than were used before. As someone who has done wildlife rehabilitation and has had to put down countless sick and deformed birds from exposure to the more toxic pesticides, I am OK with roundup. The previously used chemicals chemicals are also more dangerous to farmers and if they are leached into our water supply. In a perfect world everything would be grown organically, but that is just not feasible on large scales in our current, messed-up, agricultural economy. (Maybe some day!) In the interim, this can provide a less bad solution.

The thing that does bother me about GMOs is the intellectual property aspect- which allows jerkish corporations such as Monsanto to use legal courts to harass and strong arm others. I think we need to amend the laws on GMO IP to be more reasonable. And the USDA is sooo far in the pocket of big agribusiness that I despair of ever getting it out.

GM is really just a tool, and as such, and its beneficence depends on how it's used. I like to hold up Miracle Rice and condemn Monsanto's legal practices.

People like to attack GM and only look at the bad side of it, and are unwilling to see it as anything except the Big Corporate Evil. It is really a much more complex issue than that. As an environmentalist, I embrace it with limitations as a way to reduce heavy agricultural chemicals. I also like the varieties some non-profit and university groups work on for developing countries, for example, crops that grow in salt-blighted lands or rice that provides vitamin A and can prevent serious malnutrition.

Sorry for the long response.

[Wi-sunflower]

I'm glad you commented on the fact that Round-up replaces a lot of more toxic chemicals. I was reluctant to mention that fact.

We have a 100 acre farm and use about 25 more acres from a neighbor. We grow about 25 to 40 acres of vegies and corn or soy on the rest of it. Before Round-up ready corn, we couldn't use stuff like Atrazine on our corn because we would have about a 3 year wait before we could plant vegies. Rotating with the Soy isn't the best solutation either as many of those chemicals are just as toxic to vegies. Also the Soy residue can be a growth retardant for chiles and tomatoes. Also around here there ARE wells that are tainted from Atrazine.

So for the last 4 or 5 years hubby has planted only the Round-up Ready corn and our vegie rotation has been simplier and we usually don't have as much weed problems in the vegies either.

So yes for the corn, No for the corporate legal crud.

Carol

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

So for the last 4 or 5 years hubby has planted only the Round-up Ready corn and our vegie rotation has been simplier and we usually don't have as much weed problems in the vegies either.
So yes for the corn, No for the corporate legal crud.Carol

From what I am reading it won't be long before the soilfood web is so badly damaged by 'Round up Ready' stuff nothing will grow, and the 'dust bowl' will be back.
Information worth reading
http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm
http://www.politicalfriendster.com/s...&name=Monsanto

[Wi-sunflower]

Well our "Round-up Ready" land hasn't shown any degradation.

We are obviously NOT an organic farm, but we use very little that is not organic on our vegie crops. About 70% of our fertilizer is organic. Hubby will often plant something like Rye, winter wheat or Buckwheat on any fallow land to hold the soil and provide an organic 'plowdown'.

We rarely use any pesticides unless a crop is totally under attack and in danger of being lost. We don't use any herbicides on the vegies but cultivate often. My old Allis G tractor is probably as old as I am if not older. It's a chore to keep it running at times. Occasionally we will go thru a bad weedy area with a Round-up 'wipe' aplicator.

Last year was a rather mild year for things like cabbage looper and we only had to spray twice for them the whole season. Some of the late plantings only got the second spray.

Our Winter Squash will usually get 1 or sometimes 2 sprays for cucumber beetles shortly after they germinate because otherwise they will eat the young plants to death. We have in the past lost thousands of feet of row to the beetles. But once the plants get larger they can fend for themselves.

So how is being able to use less pesticides and less toxic stuff a danger to the planet ?? I thought that is what we are supposed to be doing. I know we have used a lot less chemicals the last 10 years or so.

Carol

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

Well our "Round-up Ready" land hasn't shown any degradation.
So how is being able to use less pesticides and less toxic stuff a danger to the planet ?? I thought that is what we are supposed to be doing. I know we have used a lot less chemicals the last 10 years or so. Carol

I commend your efforts, especially the 'green' fertilizer, but would suggest you have a 'google' and read up on Monsanto's efforts at obscuring the truth.
I believe you'll find your problems haven't started, yet. Don't wait till your ground water is polluted, like so many have found.
There are a couple of links in this thread, might I suggest you read them. Then if you get interested you should buy the book "Teeming with Microbes" by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis. You'll view fertilizers and pesticides in a whole new light.