The meaning of "heirloom"!

For many years I happily grew hybrid tomatoes. I understood the "hybrid" tomato was defined as a genetic cross between two "heirloom" tomatoes and the seed was reproduced commercially year after year after year.

At the same time, it was my understanding that an heirloom tomato was by definition a variety of tomato that had grown genetically true for at least 40 years.

Now we seem to have a class of tomatoes available that have wonderful qualities such as those produced by Brad Gates at Wild Boar Farms which have grown true for multiple generations but don't even come close to the forty year yard stick for heirlooms. I've noticed one commercial vendor who seems to come up with a different name for any tomato that shows a slight difference in his fields. He claims all kinds of wonderful virtues for his new tomatoes, but I question the validity of his claims. I've also noticed a number of vendors who carry fairly new varieties under the "heirloom" classification even if they really are not heirlooms.

Does a classification exist for the new varieties which seem to grow true through multiple generations but don't meet the "heirloom" standards?

Ted

[travis]

Custom bred new wave vintage tomatoes. And they're great!

[carolyn137]

Ted, there are many many many threads here at Tville where definitions of the word heirloom has been discussed. So many that I even hesitated answering you. You might want to do a search here and see how many of those threads you can find and hopefully read some of them.

But I think it's true to say that there is no ONE definition of heirloom that's accepted by everyone, far from it.

When and if I decide to come back, and I probably will, and discuss this a bit more I'll try to summarize the various definitions, and it isn't easy to do.

As it is I have a self scheduled appointment to watch French Open Tennis today and tomorrow and all next week and right now my interest in tennis far out ranks any discussions of heirloom tomato possible definitions.

[TZ-OH6]

No, there is no official term in common use. "Modern OP" is accurate, Tom Wagner thinks "Heirloom by Descent" would be good.


I have problems thinking of anything that was born and bred to be a commercial variety an "heirloom" because it was more or less always mass produced and thus never preserved by a family for multiple generations. I guess "heritage" fits my view of heirloom... something with a history.


What should we call most of the varieties that have come out of Eastern Europe? They were most likely bred by plant research facilities for commercial production (date of origin unknown), and brought to the US in the 1980s and 1990s after people went over and collected them from local seed venders. Then they were renamed (named) and sold as heirlooms.


At this point I think the water is so muddy that "heirloom" has little practical meaning other than that of any variety from which you can perpetuate by saving seeds.

As Carolyn said, the subject has been basically beat to death (paraphrased). I guess as a newby, I would like some finite rules by which I can identify something. The term "heirloom" seemed to have those rules as did the term "hybrid". I think I would prefer the term "heritage" for varieties which meet an age and origin standard. The newer varieties which breed true seem to meet more of an appearance standard since taste is so relative. In my mind, I tend to think of them more as designer or boutique varieties. As you said, "Modern OP" is very accurate and to the point. The recent influx of varieties from Europe would simply be "OP Import" unless the standards can be verified to qualify it as a "heritage" variety.

Ted

Carolyn,

Enjoy the tournament! I don't even know the rankings for the French Open this year. For some reason, I have a little more interest in Wimbledon every year.

Ted

[nctomatoman]

I tend to start simple. An heirloom is an item considered so valuable (for whatever reason) that it ends up being handed down generation to generation.

Take that to a vegetable or fruit variety - in order to hand something down, it has to be non-hybrid - meaning stable; if seeds are saved, it can be replicated in future grow outs.

Hybrids became the norm starting in the late 1940s/1950s, which is why some people arbitrarily assign the heirloom label to pre-1940 open pollinated varieties.

Whether Brad's new OP varieties, Tom Wagner's new OP varieties, our new Dwarf project OP varieties are considered heirlooms in 30-50 years or more hence will depend on whether people find them memorable/good enough to hand down to future generations!

[Farmette]

Makes sense to me!

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

I tend to start simple. An heirloom is an item considered so valuable (for whatever reason) that it ends up being handed down generation to generation.

Take that to a vegetable or fruit variety - in order to hand something down, it has to be non-hybrid - meaning stable; if seeds are saved, it can be replicated in future grow outs.

Hybrids became the norm starting in the late 1940s/1950s, which is why some people arbitrarily assign the heirloom label to pre-1940 open pollinated varieties.

Whether Brad's new OP varieties, Tom Wagner's new OP varieties, our new Dwarf project OP varieties are considered heirlooms in 30-50 years or more hence will depend on whether people find them memorable/good enough to hand down to future generations!

I agree. I guess OP would cover everything non heirloom except hybrids. Heirloom would reference everything that is OP plus has a tradition of origins including age. Hybrid would cover what it implies.

I'm not trying to establish a proper vocabulary for everyone to use. I'm simply trying to clarify terms currently in use which will allow me to converse intelligently with other people.

Ted

[BigdaddyJ]

I think Craig has it!