Two different Bloody Butchers?

Marko · July 23, 2010

Last year I grew Bloody Butcher for the first time. It was the first tomato to flower and first to ripen. Flavor was extraordinary. BUT: it didn't look like a Bloody Butcher, fruits were larger and meatier and skin had golden speckles. Here's te photo, golden speckles are clearly visible:

I saved the seeds and sow them immediately to see if it was a cross. I planted two plants and got the same meaty fruit with golden speckles . Even the taste was the same, something not to be expected at tomatoes ripening in early november.

This year I purchased BB seeds from another vendor and planted one new BB and one from my saved seeds. Plants were identical, first ripe fruit at the same time. The new BB turned to be true to type, extremely productive with good taste. But my old BB was disappointment, the shape was like last year, but no golden speckling and VERY tough skin, average taste.
I'm 100% sure that my saved seeds are not crossed (and my last year trial proves that) so I guess that I'm dealing with a variety that is not genetically stable.
Have any of you had similar experiences with BB?

mjc · July 23, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marko

Last year I grew Bloody Butcher for the first time. It was the first tomato to flower and first to ripen. Flavor was extraordinary. BUT: it didn't look like a Bloody Butcher, fruits were larger and meatier and skin had golden speckles. Here's te photo, golden speckles are clearly visible:

I saved the seeds and sow them immediately to see if it was a cross. I planted two plants and got the same meaty fruit with golden speckles . Even the taste was the same, something not to be expected at tomatoes ripening in early november.

This year I purchased BB seeds from another vendor and planted one new BB and one from my saved seeds. Plants were identical, first ripe fruit at the same time. The new BB turned to be true to type, extremely productive with good taste. But my old BB was disappointment, the shape was like last year, but no golden speckling and VERY tough skin, average taste.
I'm 100% sure that my saved seeds are not crossed (and my last year trial proves that) so I guess that I'm dealing with a variety that is not genetically stable.
Have any of you had similar experiences with BB?

No...it doesn't. Chances are that most of the seeds saved are not crossed, but you didn't plant enough to definitively prove it. Tomatoes can receive both pollen from themselves and from outside sources, in the same flower/fruit. That is why it is recommended to save seeds from several fruits and mix them.

Marko · July 23, 2010

mjc, you are right, you can't be sure with just one or two plants, but my Bloody Butcher was the only PL plant at least a mile around. So if it was crossed it would be RL. Not to mention that there was no other flowering tomato near at that time.
I'm just curious if anybody had meaty BB with golden speckles and great taste. If it was just an average tomato I wouldn't even start this thread

.

**carolyn137** · July 23, 2010

Marko, Bloody Butcher was bred by Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands and was released as a completley stable OP variety.

I suppose it depends on where you get your seeds from if you get something other than what the variety should be.

The speckles you refer to is called Gold Fleck.

Gold Fleck can appear when temperatures are very high and the plants and fruits are growing rapidly.

More work is needed to determine the cause b'c susceptibility to it is also genetically inherited.

The variety Depp Pink Firefly has Gold Fleck that is always inherited.

The shape of the first one you grew, with Gold Fleck, was not right for Bloody Butcher and your saved seeds gave you the same thing even with Gold Fleck again.

I don't consider those to be Bloody Butcher b'c of the shape and size as well as the Gold Fleck, which was inherited with your saved seeds. And I've not seen anyone who has gotten Gold Fleck with BB, but that's just from online feedback.

Knowing Sahin Seeds as I do, I doubt that they would ever release anything known to have Gold Fleck.

So no, I don't think there are two variants of Bloody Butcher, more like one true one, your latest one, and one imposter.

July 23, 2010	#1
Marko Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Slovenia, Europe zone 7b Posts: 300	Two different Bloody Butchers? Last year I grew Bloody Butcher for the first time. It was the first tomato to flower and first to ripen. Flavor was extraordinary. BUT: it didn't look like a Bloody Butcher, fruits were larger and meatier and skin had golden speckles. Here's te photo, golden speckles are clearly visible: I saved the seeds and sow them immediately to see if it was a cross. I planted two plants and got the same meaty fruit with golden speckles . Even the taste was the same, something not to be expected at tomatoes ripening in early november. This year I purchased BB seeds from another vendor and planted one new BB and one from my saved seeds. Plants were identical, first ripe fruit at the same time. The new BB turned to be true to type, extremely productive with good taste. But my old BB was disappointment, the shape was like last year, but no golden speckling and VERY tough skin, average taste. I'm 100% sure that my saved seeds are not crossed (and my last year trial proves that) so I guess that I'm dealing with a variety that is not genetically stable. Have any of you had similar experiences with BB?

July 23, 2010	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Marko, Bloody Butcher was bred by Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands and was released as a completley stable OP variety. I suppose it depends on where you get your seeds from if you get something other than what the variety should be. The speckles you refer to is called Gold Fleck. Gold Fleck can appear when temperatures are very high and the plants and fruits are growing rapidly. More work is needed to determine the cause b'c susceptibility to it is also genetically inherited. The variety Depp Pink Firefly has Gold Fleck that is always inherited. The shape of the first one you grew, with Gold Fleck, was not right for Bloody Butcher and your saved seeds gave you the same thing even with Gold Fleck again. I don't consider those to be Bloody Butcher b'c of the shape and size as well as the Gold Fleck, which was inherited with your saved seeds. And I've not seen anyone who has gotten Gold Fleck with BB, but that's just from online feedback. Knowing Sahin Seeds as I do, I doubt that they would ever release anything known to have Gold Fleck. So no, I don't think there are two variants of Bloody Butcher, more like one true one, your latest one, and one imposter. __________________ Carolyn