Grow room

WH_Conley · September 5, 2010

Would sure like to have some tomatoes over the winter. Trying to figure out how to do it economically. I have read several threads about lighting. I have little sun exposure in the winter time. I have a basement with a wood stove, primary heat source, temperature is not a problem. How can I grow a few plants and be able to afford it? One question, can I just wall up a small room and paint the walls white to conserve on light? Cost of electric is 11 cents a killowatt hour.

OmahaJB · September 5, 2010

I've grown tomatoes indoors using my 4-foot shoplights with additional lighting using brooders with 300-watt bulbs I found at Menard's. Can't say it was especially worth it as DTM's were longer and production was very low. HID lighting would have been too expensive both in terms of buying the light and paying for electricity, although production would have been much better I'm sure.

Some people have much better success, however. Variety choices are important. Small tomatoes, with short DTM's should have more success than some of the ones I tried. Czech's Bush was my most productive indoors, but I didn't try any of the ones that are considered small container types.

Good luck with them. I had fun growing indoors, but it did become a pain at times.

heirloomdaddy · September 5, 2010

I would think that buying an inexpensive greenhouse would be far more cost effective.

WH_Conley · September 5, 2010

Only option to heat it would be a wood stove. Fire goes out for just a few hours and you are out of business.

Stepheninky · September 6, 2010

Do not think it would be too bad to do it, just depends on what you consider affordable really. There is a few videos on youtube by a guy that does it. He builds his own CFL fixture then uses the 125 watt cfl bulbs though they are $30 each you will need one that is 6500K and one that is 2700k. He uses one of each in the fixture then just rotates the fixture or the plants. 6500k is for vegetative growth and 2700k is for flowering. So the lighting would be $70 - 90 bucks and the electric should not be too awful. You can get a cheap timer at a box store for $10.

Depending on outside temps if its a cold winter you could use the light cycle at night and the off cycle during the daytime as the lights will not get supper hot but they will give off some heat that with the occasional use of the stove should keep things warm enough, you are in Ky not Alaska its not that cold all the time. Though last winter kinda did suck lol.

You could use shop lights as well but its going to be harder to get the higher amount of light needed.

The above I posted is 250watts and using shop lights each 2 tube 4' fixture is a max of 80 watts.

You could spend a little more and get 200 watt cfl bulbs or you can get a 400 watt HID for under $200.

but as I said it just comes down to how much you want to spend initially and also how much you want to pay extra for electricity.

The CFL would last longer than the HID long term so that might be a factor as well.

If you had a sunny south facing window with no drafts then the shop lights as additional lights probably would work.

OmahaJB · September 6, 2010

To be more specific about my experience, when I first tried growing under lights, I was just using my two 4-foot shoplights. Realized right away that was not going to cut it, so bought 3 brooder lamps to use as side lighting. Started with 42-watt CFL's, but after running across 300-watt PS-type bulbs at Menard's for something like $2.99 each, I gave them a try in place of the CFL's. Had much better results that were obvious right away.

Honestly, my 4-foot shoplights got in the way more than anything, but I had limited resources to work with at the time. I did get a few peppers and some tomatoes so it wasn't a total bust. For me it was just an experiment to see how it would work anyways, and I had fun with it.

WH_Conley · September 7, 2010

I would like to have a heated green house, as I say the only source of heat right now would be a wood stove in the green house. Planing at some future date to putting an outside wood boiler to heat the house and green house, just not at this point in time.
I am located at the base of a hill and have very little sun exposure in the winter, snow lays on the ground for weeks at a time, temperature will stay below freezing for days. That would make a green house, without a very dependable heat source impractical. My house is heated by a wood furnace in the basement, never gets cold, no sunlight either.
I guess what I really need is a "grow lights for dummies" book. If I understand it right the more light the better. Seems like from what I have found the light needs to be very close to the plant and are not inexpensive to purchase or operate. The price would probably seem cheaper after eating a cardboard tomato from the store in February though. Looks like shop lights with full spectrum bulbs would be the cheapest way to go. Would they be sufficient? Would reflectorized walls help?

I am a lot better welder and sawmill operator than I am a tomato farmer, I need all the help I can get.

Thanks folks.

maf · September 7, 2010

I am going to try growing some tomatoes this winter in a spare bedroom with a 400 watt metal halide lamp. From the research I have been doing the CFL's and fluro tubes etc are good for starting off seedlings and cuttings but not so good for growing plants to maturity. It seems the greater intensity of light from the HID will penetrate beyond the upper few inches of leaf cover, and also can be positioned 2-3 feet above the tops of the plants, so no danger of the foliage growing into the bulb and creating a fire hazard.

The obvious downside is the initial expense, but for me growing tomatoes is a hobby and I can think of plenty of hobbies where the equipment needed is much more expensive.

If it works out I will post a thread with some photos later in the year.

dice · September 7, 2010

I have heard "$5 tomatoes", but that person said he does it
just to experiment and because he does not like grocery store
tomatoes.

Most successful setups are the same as for growing marijuana
indoors: 1000 watt metal halide on the ceiling with white or
mylar coated walls. The electricity cost is a lot, but you can
recycle the heat (lower heating bill for the rest of the house if
you leave the door open or vent the air into an open room
elsewhere with a temperature-triggered fan to control
temperature levels inside the grow room).

This document on setting up growth chambers for horticultural
research has a lot of information on light spectra, etc:
http://ncr101.montana.edu/Growth_Cha...dbook/Ch01.pdf

edit: One issue that people with indoor growrooms face is humidity. If
you don't vent the air into a larger space or outdoors, the humidity
build up can get mold started in the walls, etc.

September 5, 2010	#1
WH_Conley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Camp Dix, KY Posts: 39	Grow room Would sure like to have some tomatoes over the winter. Trying to figure out how to do it economically. I have read several threads about lighting. I have little sun exposure in the winter time. I have a basement with a wood stove, primary heat source, temperature is not a problem. How can I grow a few plants and be able to afford it? One question, can I just wall up a small room and paint the walls white to conserve on light? Cost of electric is 11 cents a killowatt hour.

September 7, 2010	#9
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I have heard "$5 tomatoes", but that person said he does it just to experiment and because he does not like grocery store tomatoes. Most successful setups are the same as for growing marijuana indoors: 1000 watt metal halide on the ceiling with white or mylar coated walls. The electricity cost is a lot, but you can recycle the heat (lower heating bill for the rest of the house if you leave the door open or vent the air into an open room elsewhere with a temperature-triggered fan to control temperature levels inside the grow room). This document on setting up growth chambers for horticultural research has a lot of information on light spectra, etc: http://ncr101.montana.edu/Growth_Cha...dbook/Ch01.pdf edit: One issue that people with indoor growrooms face is humidity. If you don't vent the air into a larger space or outdoors, the humidity build up can get mold started in the walls, etc. __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; September 7, 2010 at 02:54 PM. Reason: humidity

September 5, 2010	#2
OmahaJB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Toledo, OH Posts: 1,821	I've grown tomatoes indoors using my 4-foot shoplights with additional lighting using brooders with 300-watt bulbs I found at Menard's. Can't say it was especially worth it as DTM's were longer and production was very low. HID lighting would have been too expensive both in terms of buying the light and paying for electricity, although production would have been much better I'm sure. Some people have much better success, however. Variety choices are important. Small tomatoes, with short DTM's should have more success than some of the ones I tried. Czech's Bush was my most productive indoors, but I didn't try any of the ones that are considered small container types. Good luck with them. I had fun growing indoors, but it did become a pain at times.

September 5, 2010	#3
heirloomdaddy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles Z10 Posts: 291	I would think that buying an inexpensive greenhouse would be far more cost effective.

September 6, 2010	#5
Stepheninky Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 682	Do not think it would be too bad to do it, just depends on what you consider affordable really. There is a few videos on youtube by a guy that does it. He builds his own CFL fixture then uses the 125 watt cfl bulbs though they are $30 each you will need one that is 6500K and one that is 2700k. He uses one of each in the fixture then just rotates the fixture or the plants. 6500k is for vegetative growth and 2700k is for flowering. So the lighting would be $70 - 90 bucks and the electric should not be too awful. You can get a cheap timer at a box store for $10. Depending on outside temps if its a cold winter you could use the light cycle at night and the off cycle during the daytime as the lights will not get supper hot but they will give off some heat that with the occasional use of the stove should keep things warm enough, you are in Ky not Alaska its not that cold all the time. Though last winter kinda did suck lol. You could use shop lights as well but its going to be harder to get the higher amount of light needed. The above I posted is 250watts and using shop lights each 2 tube 4' fixture is a max of 80 watts. You could spend a little more and get 200 watt cfl bulbs or you can get a 400 watt HID for under $200. but as I said it just comes down to how much you want to spend initially and also how much you want to pay extra for electricity. The CFL would last longer than the HID long term so that might be a factor as well. If you had a sunny south facing window with no drafts then the shop lights as additional lights probably would work.

September 7, 2010	#8
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	I am going to try growing some tomatoes this winter in a spare bedroom with a 400 watt metal halide lamp. From the research I have been doing the CFL's and fluro tubes etc are good for starting off seedlings and cuttings but not so good for growing plants to maturity. It seems the greater intensity of light from the HID will penetrate beyond the upper few inches of leaf cover, and also can be positioned 2-3 feet above the tops of the plants, so no danger of the foliage growing into the bulb and creating a fire hazard. The obvious downside is the initial expense, but for me growing tomatoes is a hobby and I can think of plenty of hobbies where the equipment needed is much more expensive. If it works out I will post a thread with some photos later in the year.