Use of Pressure Treated Wood

Noreaster · May 20, 2011

Attached is what's available locally from stores. It replaces what until fairly recently was done with asbestos.

Because of asbestos.....I refused to use it with FOOD plants !!

Well after an average now of 4-5 years......the natural wood beds I have will need replacement this fall one the 'maters are done.

Question: Anyone know if the Home Depot pressure-treated wood they now use is healthy enough to utilize ?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ocStoreNum=975

**Lee** · May 20, 2011

I think the chemical you are thinking about is Arsenic, not asbestos.
I'm sure you'll get plenty of differing opinions on the safety of using pressure treated
wood around veggies. I use the blocks used for retaining walls for two of my
beds and nothing for the others. Just having mounds of dirt seem to work pretty
well as a raised bed. Is that an option for you?

Lee

Worth1 · May 20, 2011

Actually I think that the old stuff was treated with arsenic. I have looked up some stuff about the new stuff but I have to tell you.

In my opinion I feel it would be better to pour footings and use concrete blocks or stone.

Done correctly it will last a lifetime and someone elses lifetime.

Dont price concrete blocks at home depot or any of the other big box stores.
Find a real company and buy the blocks from them.

HD sells cheap concrete bricks for almost a dollar they dont even sell real bricks.
I found fire brick 18 miles from my house for 87 cents a piece.
It ticked me off when a person at HD told me they used the same supplier as wall mart did.
I told them it showed.

If I were to use untreated wood for a raised bed I would encapsulate it in fiberglass.
Its easy to do and not that expensive.

I just dont like doing this over again because of rot.
I like to build things that last but that is just me.

Worth

Stepheninky · May 20, 2011

I researched it and the Newer Stuff is mainly a copper chemical and salt water. So honestly it is not OMRI certified but safety wise its not a concern IMHO. Copper is also used in some agricultural applications. Also it can be sealed after it has dried out a bit. (most of what I have bought was heavy and still contained a good amount of the salt water.

To address the danger, in 2002, the United States' Environmental Protection Agency convinced lumber manufacturers to find a non-arsenic based formula for treated. The result is ACQ (Alkaline Copper Quartenary) treated lumber. I believe it is coded as letter D treated lumber.

Nothing that is contained in ACQ is considered toxic or even carcinogenic by the EPA.

The only factual danger I could find with ACQ treated wood is that it is very corrosive to standard fasteners and could cause them to fail. There are linked deaths to decks collapsing because the nails had rusted out at an accelerated rate. The largest was 28 people who died in a deck collapse in my home state of KY. Sadly my home state is also like the third fattest in the country so given that the deck was probably trying to support a fairly heavy load.

So if you use it I would recommend Stainless Steel or the proper coated fasteners.

Though if that is still a concern there is even a newer type (just came out within the last year) now that is made with recycled Glass.

Here is a link to INFO on it from This Old House
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/arti...099729,00.html

It is supposed to be an affordable new option and from what I have read it should last a really long time. In Fact it is now also being used in applications such as fire walls and barriers as it is burn proof. The temps would have to be high enough to melt the glass and as the glass is fused to the wood fibers it still probably would not burn. Cutting does not effect it, regular nails and screws can be used, and even though it uses fast growing pine the process of bonding the glass to the wood fibers makes it as hard as hickory.

Here is the link to those that sell it currently:
http://www.timbersilwood.com/authorized-dealers.html

Hope that helps

davespitzer · May 20, 2011

My raised beds are all PT with copper salts. From what I've read it's not an issue, and copper is an essential trace nutrient. Seems to be a lot safer than old tires (leaching chemicals) or railroad ties (really nasty chemicals!) Still, If you're uncomfortable with it there are lots of alternatives, including a simple stacked-stone wall if you have access to large rocks- my neighbor did that and has had no problems. Looks good, too. Very Sunset-magazine.

inthewinecountry · May 20, 2011

I have several raised beds due to Mr. gopher sharing my property with me. My first bed I put down 1/2" aviary wire and used concrete block 8X8X16 2 rows high. After several years I found out the nearby trees were sending up roots into the bed so the next bed I built I put down landscape fabric over the wire. Now believe me Mr. gopher can't lift those blocks and after 14 years the wire still hasn't rusted or been chewed thru. Again the tree roots are growing into the bed as Mr. gopher has chewed holes in the landscape fabric. Being under the soil the fabric doesn't rot. This year I build another bed, 5FT. by 12ft. This time I used 1/4" hardware cloth and then aluminum widow screen over it and finally the landscape fabric. I wanted to go 3 rows high with the block, but around here both Lowes and HD are asking 1.50 ea. for the block. Blocks don't rot or sag outward like wood and over the years they are still there as compared to the cost and replacement of wood and I can move the bed if I want to.
I might be winning the battle but the war still goes on with Mr. Gopher.
Charles

huntoften · May 20, 2011

I used treated wood myself for all of my raised beds...cheap, very durable and I think a safe option. I blogged about using it for beds and have some links about the safety issue www.kctomatotimes.wordpress.com

Noreaster · May 20, 2011

Thanks, everyone ! Appreciate your inputs.

Woops......arsenic, not asbestos (am currently replacing about 10 shingles on our home.....which began with.....asbestos). Sorry 'bout that mental mistake.

Well then......happy to read that the new treated wood won't harm. That indeed will be the way I'll go from now on, with special screws, nails, whatever.

tjg911 · May 21, 2011

pressure trated wood was called CCA - copper, chromium and arsenic, all toxic. i would NEVER use cca wood near anything i eat. i don't know what the new pressure treated wood is but if it resists rotting you have to know it's treated with chemicals that you would never ingest. i refuse to believe treated wood, cca or new pt, does not leach into the soil. it seems that concrete blocks or something that is not going to contaminate the soil (trex?) is a better choice. locust or red cedar lasts for decades if you can get that. never use telephone poles or railroad ties as they are treated with creosote or used to be, they too probably use something different now but i doubt they are safe.

tom

Stepheninky · May 21, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjg911

pressure trated wood was called CCA - copper, chromium and arsenic, all toxic. i would NEVER use cca wood near anything i eat. i don't know what the new pressure treated wood is but if it resists rotting you have to know it's treated with chemicals that you would never ingest. i refuse to believe treated wood, cca or new pt, does not leach into the soil. it seems that concrete blocks or something that is not going to contaminate the soil (trex?) is a better choice. locust or red cedar lasts for decades if you can get that. never use telephone poles or railroad ties as they are treated with creosote or used to be, they too probably use something different now but i doubt they are safe.

tom

It leeches copper and a some traces of salts. That is pretty safe in my book but to each there own.

Sunsi · May 21, 2011

My hubby made 10 16 x 4 raised beds and we used this homemade wood preservative (see link). They have been in use 2 1/2 years with no signs of rot. Be sure to pick through the wood at the lumberyard and choose heartwood it's darker in color and has some rot resistance even before an application of preservative. Stay away from sapwood which is the outer wood of a tree and is lighter in color.

Link to the homemade wood preservative--exact same recipe we used:

http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermai...ry/010315.html

May 20, 2011	#1
Noreaster Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northeast Posts: 260	Use of Pressure Treated Wood Attached is what's available locally from stores. It replaces what until fairly recently was done with asbestos. Because of asbestos.....I refused to use it with FOOD plants !! Well after an average now of 4-5 years......the natural wood beds I have will need replacement this fall one the 'maters are done. Question: Anyone know if the Home Depot pressure-treated wood they now use is healthy enough to utilize ? http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ocStoreNum=975

May 20, 2011	#2
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	I think the chemical you are thinking about is Arsenic, not asbestos. I'm sure you'll get plenty of differing opinions on the safety of using pressure treated wood around veggies. I use the blocks used for retaining walls for two of my beds and nothing for the others. Just having mounds of dirt seem to work pretty well as a raised bed. Is that an option for you? Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

May 20, 2011	#4
Stepheninky Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 682	I researched it and the Newer Stuff is mainly a copper chemical and salt water. So honestly it is not OMRI certified but safety wise its not a concern IMHO. Copper is also used in some agricultural applications. Also it can be sealed after it has dried out a bit. (most of what I have bought was heavy and still contained a good amount of the salt water. To address the danger, in 2002, the United States' Environmental Protection Agency convinced lumber manufacturers to find a non-arsenic based formula for treated. The result is ACQ (Alkaline Copper Quartenary) treated lumber. I believe it is coded as letter D treated lumber. Nothing that is contained in ACQ is considered toxic or even carcinogenic by the EPA. The only factual danger I could find with ACQ treated wood is that it is very corrosive to standard fasteners and could cause them to fail. There are linked deaths to decks collapsing because the nails had rusted out at an accelerated rate. The largest was 28 people who died in a deck collapse in my home state of KY. Sadly my home state is also like the third fattest in the country so given that the deck was probably trying to support a fairly heavy load. So if you use it I would recommend Stainless Steel or the proper coated fasteners. Though if that is still a concern there is even a newer type (just came out within the last year) now that is made with recycled Glass. Here is a link to INFO on it from This Old House http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/arti...099729,00.html It is supposed to be an affordable new option and from what I have read it should last a really long time. In Fact it is now also being used in applications such as fire walls and barriers as it is burn proof. The temps would have to be high enough to melt the glass and as the glass is fused to the wood fibers it still probably would not burn. Cutting does not effect it, regular nails and screws can be used, and even though it uses fast growing pine the process of bonding the glass to the wood fibers makes it as hard as hickory. Here is the link to those that sell it currently: http://www.timbersilwood.com/authorized-dealers.html Hope that helps __________________ tomatoprojects.blogspot.com Last edited by Stepheninky; May 20, 2011 at 02:46 PM.

May 20, 2011	#6
inthewinecountry Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 5	Gopher wars I have several raised beds due to Mr. gopher sharing my property with me. My first bed I put down 1/2" aviary wire and used concrete block 8X8X16 2 rows high. After several years I found out the nearby trees were sending up roots into the bed so the next bed I built I put down landscape fabric over the wire. Now believe me Mr. gopher can't lift those blocks and after 14 years the wire still hasn't rusted or been chewed thru. Again the tree roots are growing into the bed as Mr. gopher has chewed holes in the landscape fabric. Being under the soil the fabric doesn't rot. This year I build another bed, 5FT. by 12ft. This time I used 1/4" hardware cloth and then aluminum widow screen over it and finally the landscape fabric. I wanted to go 3 rows high with the block, but around here both Lowes and HD are asking 1.50 ea. for the block. Blocks don't rot or sag outward like wood and over the years they are still there as compared to the cost and replacement of wood and I can move the bed if I want to. I might be winning the battle but the war still goes on with Mr. Gopher. Charles

May 20, 2011	#7
huntoften Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kansas CIty Posts: 560	I used treated wood myself for all of my raised beds...cheap, very durable and I think a safe option. I blogged about using it for beds and have some links about the safety issue www.kctomatotimes.wordpress.com __________________ Kansas City, Missouri Zone 5b/6a

May 20, 2011	#3
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Actually I think that the old stuff was treated with arsenic. I have looked up some stuff about the new stuff but I have to tell you. In my opinion I feel it would be better to pour footings and use concrete blocks or stone. Done correctly it will last a lifetime and someone elses lifetime. Dont price concrete blocks at home depot or any of the other big box stores. Find a real company and buy the blocks from them. HD sells cheap concrete bricks for almost a dollar they dont even sell real bricks. I found fire brick 18 miles from my house for 87 cents a piece. It ticked me off when a person at HD told me they used the same supplier as wall mart did. I told them it showed. If I were to use untreated wood for a raised bed I would encapsulate it in fiberglass. Its easy to do and not that expensive. I just dont like doing this over again because of rot. I like to build things that last but that is just me. Worth

May 20, 2011	#5
davespitzer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: East of Stockton, California Posts: 97	My raised beds are all PT with copper salts. From what I've read it's not an issue, and copper is an essential trace nutrient. Seems to be a lot safer than old tires (leaching chemicals) or railroad ties (really nasty chemicals!) Still, If you're uncomfortable with it there are lots of alternatives, including a simple stacked-stone wall if you have access to large rocks- my neighbor did that and has had no problems. Looks good, too. Very Sunset-magazine.

May 21, 2011	#9
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	pressure trated wood was called CCA - copper, chromium and arsenic, all toxic. i would NEVER use cca wood near anything i eat. i don't know what the new pressure treated wood is but if it resists rotting you have to know it's treated with chemicals that you would never ingest. i refuse to believe treated wood, cca or new pt, does not leach into the soil. it seems that concrete blocks or something that is not going to contaminate the soil (trex?) is a better choice. locust or red cedar lasts for decades if you can get that. never use telephone poles or railroad ties as they are treated with creosote or used to be, they too probably use something different now but i doubt they are safe. tom __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

May 21, 2011	#11
Sunsi Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New York Outback 5b Posts: 107	Homemade non-toxic wood preservative My hubby made 10 16 x 4 raised beds and we used this homemade wood preservative (see link). They have been in use 2 1/2 years with no signs of rot. Be sure to pick through the wood at the lumberyard and choose heartwood it's darker in color and has some rot resistance even before an application of preservative. Stay away from sapwood which is the outer wood of a tree and is lighter in color. Link to the homemade wood preservative--exact same recipe we used: http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermai...ry/010315.html