improving soil

smokey · May 16, 2011

How do i improve the clay soil I have for planting of tomatoes?

reubenT · May 16, 2011

maters can handle clay better than some plants (like melons, they like it loose, sandy, well drained)

But best I see so far is making charcoal (biochar) out of whatever woody stuff is handy, ground up if it's in lumps, with compost. The combintion of different forms of carbon with the microbial life of the compost works good.

habitat_gardener · May 16, 2011

Add compost. I put 2-5 gallons of homemade compost in the hole when I plant my tomatoes, and I add a few inches on top every year and let the worms incorporate it into the soil.

erlyberd · May 16, 2011

Add some sand, then plenty of organic matter. Then a soil test to finish it off. Wish I had some of that clay soil of yours. Perhaps we can trade!

geeboss · May 16, 2011

your could also add some pine bark fines, gypsum, and some peat moss to amend the clay.
George

davespitzer · May 16, 2011

Compost, compost, and more compost. Mine love well-composted horse manure. Old wood chips from tree trimmers, old straw, old chicken manure, alfalfa, you name it, as long as it is well composted.

organichris · May 16, 2011

Buddies... I grew up in the part of Oklahoma known as "Red Carpet Country", so-named because of the abundance thick, red, clay. If you want to dig a hole when it's dry, forget about it. Get yourself a pick axe. In them parts, the sides of folks' homes are stained with that gunk from when it rains.

My mom grows tomatoes in that stuff. How? I may never know. I don't think she amends it at all. She just uses the blue stuff and they do fine - not that I would recommend that or anything. I mean...they don't call me organichris for nothin'.

I've heard that lime helps improve the texture, but I don't know. Adding any kind of amendment whatsoever - or even sand - would be a heck of a chore.

Okie face =

habitat_gardener · May 16, 2011

There's a trick to digging in (Calif.) clay when it's dry, assuming that you can dig in it during the rainy season: start a trickle of water, slow enough so the water is absorbed rather than running off. In a few minutes that spot will be soft enough to dig, so move the hose over. Takes no muscle at all.

feldon30 · May 17, 2011

Layers of compost, shredded leaves, pine bark fines, etc. will improve the underlying soil and give you tilth. Lasagna gardening.

b54red · May 17, 2011

If you are really dealing with true clay then you better have many, many years to wait to see much in the way of change to the texture of your soil. I live on top of a true clay knob and when I first started gardening here I hauled in tons and tons of organic matter. The results were barely noticeable after a couple of years so I did the only reasonable thing I could think of and just made raised beds on top of the clay. I have now had the raised beds in the same spots for over 25 years and have tilled them multiple times each year. I have topped them off with organic mater and compost each year. I can now go about 6 to 8 inches below the beds now before I hit pure clay.

I grew some fine crops in the clay before building the raised beds but the soil would turn to a brick when the temperatures would rise and after every heavy rain a terrible crust would form once it dried out again. Save yourself a lot of frustration and save your back a lot of hard digging and hauling of compost and go with the raised beds. It is hard work and fairly expensive to start with but you will be so glad you did.

ArcherB · May 17, 2011

I have what appears to be "soil" like yours. I have two beds. One I left alone. The other, I did the following:

Last year, after all the plants were pulled, I grabbed my handy garden rake and scraped off all the organic material I had piled up over the years, leaving hard clay. I grabbed my shovel and the city's 90 gallon trash can and started to shovel it out. Whatever was left over after the giant trashcan was half full went to low spots in the yard. Our household trash went on top of the dirt. Every Monday, after the trash was picked up, I started over, filling the trash can back up.

Once the bed was converted to a trench, I spread out the organic material I had scraped off earlier along with everything in my year-old compost piles. I then went to a local nursery that sells bulk soils/compost. I purchased their "Revitalizer" mix and dumped it into the trench and tilled it all in. There was still some of the native clay left. It's not all bad. It holds water well and contains minerals.

Then in mid January, our city gives away Christmas Tree mulch from the Christmas trees picked up curbside. It was bonus this year as there were also huge piles of composting shredded cedar. I placed about 6-8 inches of stuff on top of the bed. I also picked up loads of "Craigslist leaves" and spread them out as well. All of this was completed by mid February.

When it came time to plant, the soil was full of earthworms. I could easily pick out 20-30 in a single shovel full. The plants that were planted in that bed are doing better than they ever have. I used to think it was good to get 5-10 tomatoes off of a single plant. I now have 20 started on a single plant and I have already picked six pounds of tomatoes for my first harvest with more to be picked today.

The other side, I did nothing but spread compost and mulch on top of the soil is doing about the same as it always has. The plants are not suffering, but they are not doing as well as the "worked" bed either. This winter, I plan on treating this bed the same as I did the first one, except with more "home grown" compost as I will have much more of it next year.

I have heard that simply adding compost to the top of clay soil will work as the earthworms will carry it down into the clay. In three years, that has not worked for me. B54Red offers a good suggestion of putting a raised bed on top of the clay, but that's not an option as my beds are along the fence line and the neighbor already things my beds are the cause of his yard flooding when it rains. Also, it took B54 25 years to see good results. Mine were seen over a winter, although with 25 years worth of work put into it!

Of course, YMMV.

KKinAL · May 29, 2011

I also have red clay soil, & did a raised bed to build up good soil. I couldn't bring in dirt, etc. to fill it up, so I've gradually tilled in as much organic stuff as possible. Add peat moss, gypsum, leaves, bark mulch, veggie scraps, egg shells... also, in winter I grow collards & other greens & till those in. That really helps. (Of course you don't want to get rid of the clay completely, lots of nutrients)

May 16, 2011	#1
smokey Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oakland CA Posts: 1	improving soil How do i improve the clay soil I have for planting of tomatoes?

May 17, 2011	#9
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	Layers of compost, shredded leaves, pine bark fines, etc. will improve the underlying soil and give you tilth. Lasagna gardening. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

May 16, 2011	#2
reubenT Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Spencer TN Posts: 12	maters can handle clay better than some plants (like melons, they like it loose, sandy, well drained) But best I see so far is making charcoal (biochar) out of whatever woody stuff is handy, ground up if it's in lumps, with compost. The combintion of different forms of carbon with the microbial life of the compost works good.

May 16, 2011	#3
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	Add compost. I put 2-5 gallons of homemade compost in the hole when I plant my tomatoes, and I add a few inches on top every year and let the worms incorporate it into the soil.

May 16, 2011	#4
erlyberd Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CT Zone 5 Posts: 186	Add some sand, then plenty of organic matter. Then a soil test to finish it off. Wish I had some of that clay soil of yours. Perhaps we can trade!

May 16, 2011	#5
geeboss Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Z7 Posts: 524	your could also add some pine bark fines, gypsum, and some peat moss to amend the clay. George

May 16, 2011	#6
davespitzer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: East of Stockton, California Posts: 97	Compost, compost, and more compost. Mine love well-composted horse manure. Old wood chips from tree trimmers, old straw, old chicken manure, alfalfa, you name it, as long as it is well composted.

May 16, 2011	#7
organichris Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 630	Buddies... I grew up in the part of Oklahoma known as "Red Carpet Country", so-named because of the abundance thick, red, clay. If you want to dig a hole when it's dry, forget about it. Get yourself a pick axe. In them parts, the sides of folks' homes are stained with that gunk from when it rains. My mom grows tomatoes in that stuff. How? I may never know. I don't think she amends it at all. She just uses the blue stuff and they do fine - not that I would recommend that or anything. I mean...they don't call me organichris for nothin'. I've heard that lime helps improve the texture, but I don't know. Adding any kind of amendment whatsoever - or even sand - would be a heck of a chore. Okie face =

May 17, 2011	#10
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	If you are really dealing with true clay then you better have many, many years to wait to see much in the way of change to the texture of your soil. I live on top of a true clay knob and when I first started gardening here I hauled in tons and tons of organic matter. The results were barely noticeable after a couple of years so I did the only reasonable thing I could think of and just made raised beds on top of the clay. I have now had the raised beds in the same spots for over 25 years and have tilled them multiple times each year. I have topped them off with organic mater and compost each year. I can now go about 6 to 8 inches below the beds now before I hit pure clay. I grew some fine crops in the clay before building the raised beds but the soil would turn to a brick when the temperatures would rise and after every heavy rain a terrible crust would form once it dried out again. Save yourself a lot of frustration and save your back a lot of hard digging and hauling of compost and go with the raised beds. It is hard work and fairly expensive to start with but you will be so glad you did.

May 17, 2011	#11
ArcherB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin TX Posts: 200	I have what appears to be "soil" like yours. I have two beds. One I left alone. The other, I did the following: Last year, after all the plants were pulled, I grabbed my handy garden rake and scraped off all the organic material I had piled up over the years, leaving hard clay. I grabbed my shovel and the city's 90 gallon trash can and started to shovel it out. Whatever was left over after the giant trashcan was half full went to low spots in the yard. Our household trash went on top of the dirt. Every Monday, after the trash was picked up, I started over, filling the trash can back up. Once the bed was converted to a trench, I spread out the organic material I had scraped off earlier along with everything in my year-old compost piles. I then went to a local nursery that sells bulk soils/compost. I purchased their "Revitalizer" mix and dumped it into the trench and tilled it all in. There was still some of the native clay left. It's not all bad. It holds water well and contains minerals. Then in mid January, our city gives away Christmas Tree mulch from the Christmas trees picked up curbside. It was bonus this year as there were also huge piles of composting shredded cedar. I placed about 6-8 inches of stuff on top of the bed. I also picked up loads of "Craigslist leaves" and spread them out as well. All of this was completed by mid February. When it came time to plant, the soil was full of earthworms. I could easily pick out 20-30 in a single shovel full. The plants that were planted in that bed are doing better than they ever have. I used to think it was good to get 5-10 tomatoes off of a single plant. I now have 20 started on a single plant and I have already picked six pounds of tomatoes for my first harvest with more to be picked today. The other side, I did nothing but spread compost and mulch on top of the soil is doing about the same as it always has. The plants are not suffering, but they are not doing as well as the "worked" bed either. This winter, I plan on treating this bed the same as I did the first one, except with more "home grown" compost as I will have much more of it next year. I have heard that simply adding compost to the top of clay soil will work as the earthworms will carry it down into the clay. In three years, that has not worked for me. B54Red offers a good suggestion of putting a raised bed on top of the clay, but that's not an option as my beds are along the fence line and the neighbor already things my beds are the cause of his yard flooding when it rains. Also, it took B54 25 years to see good results. Mine were seen over a winter, although with 25 years worth of work put into it! Of course, YMMV.

May 29, 2011	#12
KKinAL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: McCalla, Alabama Posts: 60	I also have red clay soil, & did a raised bed to build up good soil. I couldn't bring in dirt, etc. to fill it up, so I've gradually tilled in as much organic stuff as possible. Add peat moss, gypsum, leaves, bark mulch, veggie scraps, egg shells... also, in winter I grow collards & other greens & till those in. That really helps. (Of course you don't want to get rid of the clay completely, lots of nutrients)