Newbie seed saver question about fermentation

[nybb]

Hi All! This year was my first attempt at gardening and happy to say I'm officially hooked and already looking forward to next season! It's been a ton of work and I'm both extremely pleased with the overall results but flat out exhausted and still feeling overwhelmed by it all. I know I've learned a ton, but still feel pretty clueless overall.

So I am keen on saving my own seeds but think I made a major mistake and only now realizing it at the end of the growing season.

When I was fermenting my tomato seeds, I placed them in a glass container, added a little water, and then COVERED the jar with the lid, leaving them to sit for 3-5 days. I did see mold growth, it smelled funky when I took the lid off and had good amounts of slime and whatnot, but I am just realizing I should have left the lid off and allowed air to get in there!

So I am wondering if I'm likely SOL, or if there is something I can do at this point to try to have better success for germination?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

The other question I have is regarding planting tomatoes next year, since as I understand it, I should not plant in the same spot for 4 years or so? I have limited sunny space and wondering what my plan for next year should be. FWIW, I am growing in raised beds (SFG) and also have 2 Earthboxes (1 we used for tomatoes and the other for peppers). I saved seeds from my various pepper plants as well, and since everything is growing in tight quarters, I was wondering if I'll have any issues with cross pollination next year? We started our tomatoes and peppers from transplants this year, things were crowded but everything that grew seemed to do just fine, but I was hoping to try my luck starting from seed next year and still not sure what I'm in for.

Again, any advice is greatly appreciated in advance. If anyone has any sources they can point me towards to help me get a better grasp on things, I'm all ears.

Anyway, thanks for such a great resource, this site has been a great help to me!!

Cheers

[amideutch]

nybb, welcome to TVille. When I ferment my seeds I normally set the lid on top of the jar during the fermenting phase. I've never actually closed the lid. if you got mold growth then I think you won't have any problems. Go ahead and clean and dry the seeds and do a germination test on them. Get some 1X4 coffee filters and insert about 10 seeds inside of the filter and spray bothe sides of the filter with a fine mist of water to moisten the filter. Put the filter in a Zip-Lock bag and set on top of a cupboard out of direct sunlight. In 5-7 days hold your ziplock up to a light source and you can see if the seeds have sprouted.

Concerning your raised bed question This is the 5th year I have grown tomatoes in my raised bed at work. Each year I add compost, horse manure after I have pulled the plants at the end of the season and the folowing year I add organic ferts and rake the bed lightly. I've found that NOT digging the earth and turning but only lightly raking in the amendments has given me better results.

As far as cross pollination problems when growing tomatoes in close quarters I have had none. I've grown plants spaced 24" with no problems except the tomatoes getting buried in the foliage because I do not trim my plants.

Also check out Mycorrhiza which is a microbial product that assists the plant roots in nutrient uptake and disease resistance. Ami


http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=14683

[Tom C zone 4/5]

Sometimes we don't have space to rotate tomatoes. I might refrain from composting spent plants. Take 'em to the trash.

I might also use plenty of organic material each spring. After a few years your bed, oe even your raised bed will get too full. Time then to broadcast some of that dirt onto the rest of the lawn.

Lastly mulch, mulch, mulch, the more you can reduce spashed back soil, the better your tomato plants will fare. A-n-d the ghost of Ruth Stout will be happy.

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by nybb

When I was fermenting my tomato seeds, I placed them in a glass container, added a little water, and then COVERED the jar with the lid, leaving them to sit for 3-5 days. I did see mold growth, it smelled funky when I took the lid off and had good amounts of slime and whatnot, but I am just realizing I should have left the lid off and allowed air to get in there!

So I am wondering if I'm likely SOL, or if there is something I can do at this point to try to have better success for germination?

I don't know what effect, if any, this will have on the seeds.

For future reference, one thing you can do is to loosely wrap each jar with plastic wrap (maybe using a rubber band to secure it) and then poke a few holes in the top. This is what I used to do before I switched from the unpredictable fermentation to Oxyclean seed processing.

Originally Posted by nybb

The other question I have is regarding planting tomatoes next year, since as I understand it, I should not plant in the same spot for 4 years or so? I have limited sunny space and wondering what my plan for next year should be.

Crop rotation is something people preach for disease control, but it's not realistic in the typical home gardener's workspace. We just don't have enough space to rotate crops to the degree that the experts say we should. For another thing, my garden is typically 75% tomatoes and 25% other things. I would need 16 times as much space to grow tomatoes as I normally would to do a proper 4 year crop rotation.

So I would say if you can do some limited crop rotation (giving one garden bed a year a rest and using other crops), go for it. Otherwise use best practices such as mulch, adding compost each year, and throwing away any decaying/dead plant matter at the end of the season rather than tilling it into the soil.

[RayR]

Ya, it would be a bit impractical for many of us to take the advise of the horticultural "experts" that say you "should not plant in the same spot for 4 years or so". I think the reasoning behind the advise is based on the assumption that pathogens will build up in the soil if you plant the same crop in the same soil year after year. That may be true in some cases with parasites like root knot nematodes, or verticillium and fusarium wilts...or is it? Will they just disappear after 4 years if different crops are planted or if the soil is left fallow? I can't answer that since most soil born pathogens like that are more common down South and rare or nonexistent here up North.
As has already been said, keeping the soil healthy with good organic cultural practices is probably the best defense against any baddies that might take hold in the soil.

[coloken]

"When I was fermenting my tomato seeds, I placed them in a glass container, added a little water, and then COVERED the jar with the lid, leaving them to sit for 3-5 days. I did see mold growth, it smelled funky when I took the lid off and had good amounts of slime and whatnot, but I am just realizing I should have left the lid off and allowed air to get in there!
So I am wondering if I'm likely SOL, or if there is something I can do at this point to try to have better success for germination?
Any advice is greatly appreciated."

Now don't get too excited about fermenting exactly like every one else. It's hard to mess up completely. If after a few days. the seeds rinse out clean, then your OK. Too long could over do it. Like others say, if you are worried test a few seeds. Rotateing the soil would be great but hardly any body has that luxury.

[amideutch]

By adding mycobial products each year (Mycorrhiza, Biota Max and Actinovate) for example to your grow bed at plant out plus the addition of organic materials during the off season will allow the microbial herd in the Rhizophere (ground) to propogate and develop their colonies. And by not digging and turning the soil (No Till) you do not disturb their environment and they will continue to thrive and feed the plant and fight of the bad guys that also exist in the Rhizophere. This is the reason I believe my fruit production from this one bed has increased over the years and not the opposite. Ami

[feldon30]

With the prevalence of great organic pretreatments like Ami mentions, the days of just abandoning a garden bed due to disease buildup seem to be numbered.