Two stems in one pot

wud47b · April 18, 2011

I bought a potted Big Beef tomato that has two stems coming from below the dirt. If they are coming from the same plant should I just leave them there when I transfer the plant into my garden? They're a few inches high.

Gobig_or_Gohome_toms · April 18, 2011

If they are two seperate plants you can re-pot them now and have two plants for when you plant out as tomato seedlings are very hardy and should survive fine if seperated. If you only plan on growing one plant of them then it might be better to cut one of them are the base near the soil so you only have one plant growing and they are not competing for nutrients when they are growing in the garden.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Craig

wud47b · April 18, 2011

Thank you, Craig.

April 20, 2011

I think the general consensus is "one plant per pot". I've noticed something odd this year that has me puzzled about that question. I lost most of my "grown from seed" seedlings this year during a frost event. I immediately replanted seed in the soil since it was warm enough to germinate seed and I replanted some seed in pots. In some cases I wasn't very careful and got two seed planted almost together in both the soil and in the starter pots. In each case, I also had some seeds of the same varieties planted individually. I didn't automatically remove the extra plants and over a few weeks, the double plants have outperformed the single plants in growth. I have plenty of nutrition in the soil to support the double plants and they get plenty of moisture and sunlight. I'm curious if the improved growth is due to a competitive trait causing the double plants to compete for more sunlight resulting in faster growth. I'm also curious if the extra growth will continue through the growing season if all conditions are optimum. Since I have single plants growing also, I think I will watch them all season and monitor growth and production of both.

Ted

camochef · April 25, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedln

I think the general consensus is "one plant per pot". I've noticed something odd this year that has me puzzled about that question. I lost most of my "grown from seed" seedlings this year during a frost event. I immediately replanted seed in the soil since it was warm enough to germinate seed and I replanted some seed in pots. In some cases I wasn't very careful and got two seed planted almost together in both the soil and in the starter pots. In each case, I also had some seeds of the same varieties planted individually. I didn't automatically remove the extra plants and over a few weeks, the double plants have outperformed the single plants in growth. I have plenty of nutrition in the soil to support the double plants and they get plenty of moisture and sunlight. I'm curious if the improved growth is due to a competitive trait causing the double plants to compete for more sunlight resulting in faster growth. I'm also curious if the extra growth will continue through the growing season if all conditions are optimum. Since I have single plants growing also, I think I will watch them all season and monitor growth and production of both.

Ted

Ted,
When I start seed, I always put 2 seeds, sometimes3, in each cell of 72 cell trays, with seed starter mix. When transplanting to larger containers about a month later, I just add the entire cell to the potting soil mixture in the larger containers with the intention of snipping off the weaker plant in the future.
The past few years I haven't snipped any and just plant them out as I also noticed that the doubles always seem to grow better than the singles. This even occured last year in the severe drought and excessive hot temperatures that we had. Of course they always go in one cage and they really do show significant growth and production over the singles.
Strangely this trait doesn't seem to work with triplets and I usually snip one of the three off. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed this.
Hope you have a great season ahead and a bumper crop!
Camo

April 25, 2011

Camo,

I've always planted my gardens very, very crowded with different compatible vegetables.At the same time, I've read the proper spacing suggestions from many tomato growers which require a lot of space between plants.

Last year, I was curious about the correct spacing and single stem cultivation versus multistem (leave the suckers on the plants) cultivation. I planted a number of tomato plants with the root balls touching. I also planted many single plants "properly" spaced. The double root ball plants out performed the single root ball plants under identical conditions. The single root ball plants produced larger fruit, but fewer of them. Multiple stems also produced more fruit of a slightly smaller size. I performed the same curiosity driven experiment with my pepper plants. The pepper plants did not like their root balls touching. The double root ball peppers were stunted and had low production compared with the single root ball plants.

Last year was such a lousy season in my area for growing tomatoes that I'm not sure my results are legitimate, but I think they are. I also think my results would have been different if I lived in an area with high humidity. Disease would probably have killed my dense plantings quickly with high humidity.

Ted

cushman350 · April 25, 2011

Quote:

Last year was such a lousy season in my area for growing tomatoes that I'm not sure my results are legitimate, but I think they are. I also think my results would have been different if I lived in an area with high humidity. Disease would probably have killed my dense plantings quickly with high humidity.

Ted

Last year was lousy in WFalls, Tx too. Actually, I'm still looking for that bumper crop here in Tomato Hell, as I affectionately call Wichita Falls. 6 years and hoping my new timing strategy will produce more toms. Early germination and early planting with frost protection. Normally we plant seedlings around April 1, this year I put seeds down Jan25 and planted larger seedlings that were just putting out tiny green buds March 17 and now have quarter sized tomatoes starting to cover the plants. Next year I think I'll start seeds at the end of Dec. Timing is everything in Tomato Hell.

ContainerTed · April 25, 2011

This year, I actually broke down and "bought" a couple of plants. A local nursery down the road just a bit had some beautiful seedlings. I got German Queen and Mr. Stripey, two very popular varieties in this area. The two plants were both about 10 inches tall and both were "two stems coming out of the mix".

Two days after getting them home, I separated them as I transplanted them into gallon pots. Now, I have four plants that are about 18 inches high. They'll go into the garden today.

I always look for "doubles" when I purchase. I've never run into a plant at a nursery that was buried in the mix so far that it appeared as two stems. And, besides, if it was another plant "top" (as opposed to a leaf branch), that difference would be instantly recognizable.

Anyhow, when purchasing plants, "doubles" are a good thing.

I, too, will occasionally put a "double" into the garden if the two plants are both equally vigorous and healthy. But, I don't like crowding when it comes to seed production.

Ted

barkeater · April 25, 2011

"I performed the same curiosity driven experiment with my pepper plants. The pepper plants did not like their root balls touching. The double root ball peppers were stunted and had low production compared with the single root ball plants."

Ted,

Your comment above reminded me of what I was told years ago by the vegetable farmers I knew. They said peppers grow and yield the best if you grow them close enough in the row for the leaves to be touching when they are setting fruit. That meant about 10"-12" for most varieties.

I can understand why the rootballs touching would be bad as the root structure is so dense and not extensive like a tomato plant.

camochef · April 25, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedln

Camo,

I've always planted my gardens very, very crowded with different compatible vegetables.At the same time, I've read the proper spacing suggestions from many tomato growers which require a lot of space between plants.

Last year, I was curious about the correct spacing and single stem cultivation versus multistem (leave the suckers on the plants) cultivation. I planted a number of tomato plants with the root balls touching. I also planted many single plants "properly" spaced. The double root ball plants out performed the single root ball plants under identical conditions. The single root ball plants produced larger fruit, but fewer of them. Multiple stems also produced more fruit of a slightly smaller size. I performed the same curiosity driven experiment with my pepper plants. The pepper plants did not like their root balls touching. The double root ball peppers were stunted and had low production compared with the single root ball plants.

Last year was such a lousy season in my area for growing tomatoes that I'm not sure my results are legitimate, but I think they are. I also think my results would have been different if I lived in an area with high humidity. Disease would probably have killed my dense plantings quickly with high humidity.

Ted

Ted other than having doubles in cages I don't overcrowd at all I maintain 4 1/2 feet between plants and 5 foot between rows on all my tomatoes. all of which are caged and well pruned to allow good air circulation. I like to keep leaves away from the soil not only to allow air circulation but to keep soil from splashing up onto them.
I would never try doing the same with peppers. They just aren't as friendly. I've even increased the distance between rows of alliums, they just seem to do better, or maybe it allows me to get in and fertilize them better.
Camo

Stepheninky · April 25, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by barkeater

"I performed the same curiosity driven experiment with my pepper plants. The pepper plants did not like their root balls touching. The double root ball peppers were stunted and had low production compared with the single root ball plants."

Ted,

Your comment above reminded me of what I was told years ago by the vegetable farmers I knew. They said peppers grow and yield the best if you grow them close enough in the row for the leaves to be touching when they are setting fruit. That meant about 10"-12" for most varieties.

I can understand why the rootballs touching would be bad as the root structure is so dense and not extensive like a tomato plant.

IDK, my experience is a bit different. I plant tomatoes as singles but if there are two I plant them and they tend to do as well as the singles but with peppers I always seed them in pairs as recommended by The Farmer's Almanac and they seem to be more productive that way.

April 25, 2011

These are my Jaune Flamme tomato seedlings photographed today. The one on the left is a double plant from the same cell. The one on the right is the single plant. I think you can see the growth difference between the double plants and the single plant. All other conditions are the same. The same trend is also happening to some Carbon and Tarasenko 6 plants.

These are my dwarf project seedlings growing in pots. They were originally planted three seeds to the pot on March 7 so it has only been about six weeks since the seed was planted and the Emerald Giant plant is almost fourteen inches tall. All four are producing blooms. They are growing as double plants after I removed the third plant from each container.

When I say "I grow crowded", I mean it. This bed has six tomato varieties with at least two plants of each. The bed includes KBX, Brandywine Yellow, Pineapple, Siberian Bushy, another OP variety which I can't remember and hybrid Fourth Of July variety at each corner. The bed also has onions, and five crookneck yellow squash plants. It works and all of the plants do well.

I enjoy experimenting with different growing techniques and decided to try "straw bale gardening" this year. The bales have spinich and chard on the inside with yellow and red Tumbling Tom tomatoes on the edge, which will eventually drape over the sides of the bales. I planted the bales for fun and decoration. I have now been told the Tumbling Tom tomatoes are very tasty cherry tomatoes.

You mentioned spacing your allums well apart. These are my onions, planted in January; very close together. Some of the bulbs are almost three inches in diameter. I planted 450 of the onions so we are eating a lot and giving a lot away.

Ted

parah · October 7, 2011

Doubles are more vigorous than singles.

This seems like a tremendously valuable observation.
Why is this thread so quiet?

Does everybody already know about this?
I didn't know. You can bet all my tomatoes will be double seeded from now on!
Thanks for sharing.

dice · October 8, 2011

Quote:

Doubles are more vigorous than singles.

This seems like a tremendously valuable observation.
Why is this thread so quiet?

Are they in the ground or in a container? How big of a container?
How big do the plants naturally get? What is the fertilizer supply,
how much and what kind? If you put enough in initially for both plants,
will too much of it dissolve in a rainstorm and burn both of them?

This may have been observed in some cases for some people with
some kinds of tomato plant, but this is hardly a foregone conclusion
for any tomato plants in any growing environment.

So, try it and see. Maybe it will work for you.

parah · October 10, 2011

Thanks Dice
I am trying it.
You never know what gems of experience you will hear about on these forums.
Camochef and TedIn have had success with doubles.

That is enough encouragement for me to put an extra seed in each cell!
Simple and easy.

Camochef has grown more tomatoes than I will ever grow in two lifetimes and he said he
puts two or three seeds in every cell with better results. Contrary to the dogma "one pot - one plant".

Fascinating.

Has anybody else had better results with doubles?

April 18, 2011	#1
wud47b Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: ca Posts: 2	Two stems in one pot I bought a potted Big Beef tomato that has two stems coming from below the dirt. If they are coming from the same plant should I just leave them there when I transfer the plant into my garden? They're a few inches high.

April 25, 2011	#8
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	This year, I actually broke down and "bought" a couple of plants. A local nursery down the road just a bit had some beautiful seedlings. I got German Queen and Mr. Stripey, two very popular varieties in this area. The two plants were both about 10 inches tall and both were "two stems coming out of the mix". Two days after getting them home, I separated them as I transplanted them into gallon pots. Now, I have four plants that are about 18 inches high. They'll go into the garden today. I always look for "doubles" when I purchase. I've never run into a plant at a nursery that was buried in the mix so far that it appeared as two stems. And, besides, if it was another plant "top" (as opposed to a leaf branch), that difference would be instantly recognizable. Anyhow, when purchasing plants, "doubles" are a good thing. I, too, will occasionally put a "double" into the garden if the two plants are both equally vigorous and healthy. But, I don't like crowding when it comes to seed production. Ted __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

April 25, 2011	#9
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	"I performed the same curiosity driven experiment with my pepper plants. The pepper plants did not like their root balls touching. The double root ball peppers were stunted and had low production compared with the single root ball plants." Ted, Your comment above reminded me of what I was told years ago by the vegetable farmers I knew. They said peppers grow and yield the best if you grow them close enough in the row for the leaves to be touching when they are setting fruit. That meant about 10"-12" for most varieties. I can understand why the rootballs touching would be bad as the root structure is so dense and not extensive like a tomato plant. __________________ barkeater

April 25, 2011	#12
tedln Guest Posts: n/a	These are my Jaune Flamme tomato seedlings photographed today. The one on the left is a double plant from the same cell. The one on the right is the single plant. I think you can see the growth difference between the double plants and the single plant. All other conditions are the same. The same trend is also happening to some Carbon and Tarasenko 6 plants. These are my dwarf project seedlings growing in pots. They were originally planted three seeds to the pot on March 7 so it has only been about six weeks since the seed was planted and the Emerald Giant plant is almost fourteen inches tall. All four are producing blooms. They are growing as double plants after I removed the third plant from each container. When I say "I grow crowded", I mean it. This bed has six tomato varieties with at least two plants of each. The bed includes KBX, Brandywine Yellow, Pineapple, Siberian Bushy, another OP variety which I can't remember and hybrid Fourth Of July variety at each corner. The bed also has onions, and five crookneck yellow squash plants. It works and all of the plants do well. I enjoy experimenting with different growing techniques and decided to try "straw bale gardening" this year. The bales have spinich and chard on the inside with yellow and red Tumbling Tom tomatoes on the edge, which will eventually drape over the sides of the bales. I planted the bales for fun and decoration. I have now been told the Tumbling Tom tomatoes are very tasty cherry tomatoes. You mentioned spacing your allums well apart. These are my onions, planted in January; very close together. Some of the bulbs are almost three inches in diameter. I planted 450 of the onions so we are eating a lot and giving a lot away. Ted Last edited by tedln; April 25, 2011 at 08:28 PM.

October 10, 2011	#15
parah Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Asia Posts: 152	Thanks Dice I am trying it. You never know what gems of experience you will hear about on these forums. Camochef and TedIn have had success with doubles. That is enough encouragement for me to put an extra seed in each cell! Simple and easy. Camochef has grown more tomatoes than I will ever grow in two lifetimes and he said he puts two or three seeds in every cell with better results. Contrary to the dogma "one pot - one plant". Fascinating. Has anybody else had better results with doubles? Last edited by parah; June 26, 2012 at 10:19 AM.

April 18, 2011	#2
Gobig_or_Gohome_toms Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Zone 4 Lake Minnetonka, MN Posts: 967	If they are two seperate plants you can re-pot them now and have two plants for when you plant out as tomato seedlings are very hardy and should survive fine if seperated. If you only plan on growing one plant of them then it might be better to cut one of them are the base near the soil so you only have one plant growing and they are not competing for nutrients when they are growing in the garden. Just my 2 cents worth. Craig

April 20, 2011	#4
tedln Guest Posts: n/a	I think the general consensus is "one plant per pot". I've noticed something odd this year that has me puzzled about that question. I lost most of my "grown from seed" seedlings this year during a frost event. I immediately replanted seed in the soil since it was warm enough to germinate seed and I replanted some seed in pots. In some cases I wasn't very careful and got two seed planted almost together in both the soil and in the starter pots. In each case, I also had some seeds of the same varieties planted individually. I didn't automatically remove the extra plants and over a few weeks, the double plants have outperformed the single plants in growth. I have plenty of nutrition in the soil to support the double plants and they get plenty of moisture and sunlight. I'm curious if the improved growth is due to a competitive trait causing the double plants to compete for more sunlight resulting in faster growth. I'm also curious if the extra growth will continue through the growing season if all conditions are optimum. Since I have single plants growing also, I think I will watch them all season and monitor growth and production of both. Ted

October 7, 2011	#13
parah Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Asia Posts: 152	Doubles are more vigorous than singles. This seems like a tremendously valuable observation. Why is this thread so quiet? Does everybody already know about this? I didn't know. You can bet all my tomatoes will be double seeded from now on! Thanks for sharing.