What to do with Verde Claro Tomato variety

[dokutaaguriin]

Hi tom,
I hope you do release Verde Claro either as an OP or F1 and are compensated for your years and years of research + development.
Perhaps after the release of Verde Claro you could start to release all those other tomatoes in your collection. It certainly seems to me that in the last couple of years there has been a boom in OP/heirloom tomatoes in my neck of the woods (and all over NA, EU, AU etc.) so your timing maybe perfect! (pent-up demand). Many people these days equate heirloom tomatoes with the more visually striking tomatoes- esp. Green Zebra.

Jeff, who hopes that other non-US rsidents can get there hands on Verde Claro, too.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by mdvpc

Tom- Green when ripe is very popular now-for all I know you may have started it with Green Grape-which I love. Now sounds like the right time to Verde Claro. Whatever you choose to do, I sure would like to grow and taste that tomato!

Michael, Tom didn't start the green when ripe type of varieties, for they existed before he ever released Green Grape thru his Tater Mater Seed catalog in the mid-80's or so.

I know my source for my first GWRipe was Evergreen, which I got from Gleckler's, now defunct, back in the early 80's and if I were to go back into some of my SSE YEarbooks between 1975 when they started and maybe 1980, I'm sure I'd find others. But I don't like going back to those early Yearbooks b'c varieties were not listed by color. They were listed by state, and within state by alphabetically by SSE member, and it makes it very difficult to find anything.

But there's no question that Tom's Green Grape did make the GWRipes more popular altho Evergreen was also popular way back when.

And I'm sure Tom can indicate which of the GWRipes preceded Green Grape and no doubt one or more, possibly, are in the parentage of GG.

[mdvpc]

Carolyn-thanks for the info-I wasnt growing tomatoes back then and didnt know when green when ripe first hit the tomato world.

[Tom Wagner]

..source for my first GWRipe was Evergreen, which I got from Gleckler's

Four heirloom types tomatoes were in the background of the Green Grape.

The Evergreen was bought from Gleckler's back in the 50's. It cracked too much for me so I crossed it with an old red variety that proved better crack resistance. Once I had that stable, I was crossing with a variety of sweet cherry crosses and segregations. Those early hybrids were carried down in a number of populations and the prototypes of Green Grape has been bouncing around for 35 years now.

Tom Wagner

[Fusion_power]

This may just be an interesting thought but for what its worth, please consider.

I could offer to grow plants out and sell them at a premium with proceeds to pay you for the release Tom. If you got the same agreement with Laurel, you would be paid several hundred dollars for the release. This would not be as profitable as selling the seed to one of the major seed companies, but it would get you paid perhaps enough to enjoy the release with a minimum of effort on your part. It would rely on honesty on the part of the plant growers.

The negative of doing this is that there would be less market for the plants the second year. This is where you get someone like Linda at TGS to have a large stock of seed to sell. The second year, you get revenue from the sale of seed. If this is properly done, you get income for at least 2 years.

Also as an FYI, I am growing plants under an MTA this year. They will be evaluated and information returned to the owner. I will abide by the terms and conditions agreed upon. There are some very very interesting new varieties out there that are not released!

Fusion

[The Future]

What has become of Verde Claro?

Says The Future who is determined to read all threads as far back a 2006 in search of tomato knowledge.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by The Future

What has become of Verde Claro?

Says The Future who is determined to read all threads as far back a 2006 in search of tomato knowledge.

Since this thread was from 2007 there are quite a few updates.

Tom never made Verde Claro available to any seed companies but did offer it at his new website this year.

Since 2007 there have been several varieties that have been introduced that are green when ripe types and have a clear epidermis, the one I'm thinking of most strongly is Green Doctors Frosted, descended from Green Doctors and I've been offering both in my seed offers here as donated from Adam Gleckler and I think he offers one or both at his website and yes, I'm pretty sure I sent both to him as I did to other places I know well.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...octors_Frosted

This past Spring it occurred to me that I'd kept my word about not distributing seeds of what I trialed for Tom about 16-17 years ago and in the meantime I'd seen many of them listed in the SSE YEarbooks and also at websites.

In 2002 I last grew out the varieties I liked and sent seeds to a friend who was going to do seed production so I could offer them here in my seed offer.

AS courtesy I PMed Tom to let him know what I planned to do but he never answered me.

And yes, Verde Claro was one of the ones I sent out for seed production.

There were complications and too long to go into but no seeds back this year, possibly next year.

In the meantime with Tom's new site he is making money off of his potato sales and sales of tomato seeds, many bred by him, some stable, some not, and other varieties as well not bred by him. So the comments about making money which run through many of the posts above has been partially solved as I see it.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Verde_Claro

From the above link I see that Jeff Casey is offering Verde Claro at his website.

[lakelady]

Well, I can understand wanting compensation on an undertaking like that because I'm spending a small fortune already on next year's garden prep and I'm not even breeding anything ... except probably fungus gnats this year ..

But now reading this thread has me very interested in this Verde Claro, sounds like a great tomato!

[tam91]

Carolyn, which do you prefer for taste - Verde Claro or Green Doctors Frosted?

[Tom Wagner]

Luck would have it that I found this thread/topic so soon after being resurrected from years ago.

I will make available one of my strains of Verde Claro within a few weeks or months (never can be sure with me).

Rather than introduce all the variations that have been floating around in my seed saving efforts for the last 15 or more years....I will have one selection listed in my New World Seeds & Tubers website....newworldcrops.com and I will get my webmaster to post the pictures and history of it there.

I had three farm interns try it this year and it must have made an impression on them. The latest intern to try it was so duly amazed by the flavor that she sought to help me harvest some of my potato breeding lines a week or two later. Getting several hours of help getting potatoes dug is necessary with my reduced mobility these days.

This selection of Verde Claro that I will list will likely feature heavily in my lecture and art display in Portland next year sometime in August. The Portland folks will plant nothing but "Tom Wagner" tomato varieties next year due to the success of my Skykomish, Chadds Ford, Helsing ★★★★★★★★ Blue, and Clackamas Blueberry this past season.

I will be writing up quite a bit of suggestive tips on how to grow the Verde Claro and when to pick.

If sales of seed of Verde Claro does well along with other specialty tomato varieties....I hope to use some of that cash flow to train young farm interns on breeding techniques and seed saving.

I am visiting tomorrow with a noted Seattle Tree and Landscape author and hope to show him some of my potatoes as we dig them. I sent him potatoes this past season and named one for him then. Yes, I gave it a tree name.

I suppose I owe a story or two...especially since I have moved toward an OPEN SOURCE philosophy regarding my seed innovation. There simply was no use waiting for a variety protection measure and profit mentality.

Tom Wagner

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tam91

Carolyn, which do you prefer for taste - Verde Claro or Green Doctors Frosted?

When I first trialed Verde Claro back in the 90's I loved it for a couple of reasons. First, it was the first clear epidermis variety I'd grown, and as such was a novelty to me at the time, but still, I thought it had great taste regardless of the clear epidermis aspect.

I still like Verde Claro very much but when Green Doctors came on the scene several years ago, I liked it very much as well, for taste. Having then a clear epidermis of GD appear, and that was noted simultaeously by Jeff Casey and Neil Lockhart and I believe Lee G, that was just an extra.

Right now, if speaking of just taste , as you asked, and nothing to do with clear or yellow epidermis, I like Verde Claro and Green Doctors about the same.

And here we're speaking of cherry size varieties although VC is an oval and GD is cherry shaped.

And as I said above, there are larger fruited varieties that are now clear epidermis green when ripes as well.

Somewhere around here there's a thread where Jeff Casey was reporting about his GD clear epidermis one, I found out from Neil Lockhart at about the same time that he too had found some, and Adam Gleckler was growing out GD for seed production, from GD I'd sent him, and found, I think he said, that maybe 1/3 of his GD plants had the clear epidermis. I was also the source to Jeff Casey as well.

It was Jeff and Neil and myself who decided on calling it Green Doctors Frosted although I think that suggestion was first made by Jeff if I recall. And of course "frosted" b'c fruit clusters looked just like frosted grapes.

So both Adam and Jeff offer both GD versions at their websites. And while I didn't check Tania's page for either, I think some other seed sites offer one or the other, mostly GD ( yellow epidermis) as well.

[tam91]

Thank you Carolyn. I grew Green Doctors Frosted this year and liked it very much. I was just curious if VC was even better. Sounds like perhaps they are comparable.

I'll check out the VC also.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tam91

Thank you Carolyn. I grew Green Doctors Frosted this year and liked it very much. I was just curious if VC was even better. Sounds like perhaps they are comparable.

I'll check out the VC also.

Yes, I would call them very comparable as to taste and production.

And I find that interesting since surely the genetic backgrounds for both are very different.

And I say that b/c when I grew VC ( seeds from Tom for that trial) the variety named by Steve Draper called Dr. Carolyn (ivory cherries), which I had found when growing out saved seeds from Galina's, a great tasting PL gold cherry, was not around yet or at least available to others.

I just checked some dates and Green Grape was first listed in the SSE YEarbook in 1987, and I didn't grow Galina's until the early 90's when Craig and I requested all the varieties that Bill McDorman brought back from Siberia, then split the cost and the seeds.

And Green Doctors came from the variety Dr. Carolyn.

So Green Doctors has Galina's and Dr. Carolyn in it's background and I can't be sure what the genetic background for VC is although at her website Tania has suggested possibly Green Grape, which was bred by Tom himself, and I think it's a good bet that that might be true, although that can't be the only genetic input b'c of the shape and clear epidermis.

Why am I going on and on here when I really want to go out to the front room and watch the tennis quarterfinals live from Paris.

I'll tell you why, and that's b'c the genetic backgrounds and histories of tomato varieties have always been an obsession with me, or should I say a major interest.

[dokutaaguriin]

Verde Claro has an incredible SMOOTH sweetness to it while Green Doctors Frosted was just as sweet but with melon hints to it.
Here is a link to my catalogue where I post more information about both varieties:
http://caseysheirloomtomatoes.ca/Cas...Catalogue.html

Jeff

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dokutaaguriin

Verde Claro has an incredible SMOOTH sweetness to it while Green Doctors Frosted was just as sweet but with melon hints to it.
Here is a link to my catalogue where I post more information about both varieties:
http://caseysheirloomtomatoes.ca/Cas...Catalogue.html

Jeff

Jeff, although you know I've been to your tomato site many times, something is different now. I don't want to download all the tomatoes and just clicked on green ones in the left had column and only three show up.

When I tried to just single click on the tomato picture a bar with loading came up but I sat here a bit and nothing downloaded.

Maybe it's just me and my problem, but I used to see everything without loading into a pdf format and that means your suggested short season varieties and all the other varieties, listed by color, going from page to page.

However, I just had to ask you what melon variety Verde Claro has taste tones for you? Regular Canteloupe, Honeydew, Hayogen types, Charantais, etc. I never tasted that melon tone, but we all perceive taste differently so who knows.

And if others are having no problem accessing your complete listings without downloading a pdf file, please let me know here in this thread and I'll try again later.