Zone 6 growers, how tall do your plants get? - Page 2

RobinB · January 6, 2012

Okay, the map MUST be wrong. No way I'm in 6b. Zone 5 maybe... except for the fact that the zones are by temperature and the range for 6b is about right. People in Canada have longer growing seasons than me! The last two years we've had snow and lows in the 20s in early June. Usually, I can't plant out without protection until mid-June and first frost is early October. Over the years, I've figured out what I need to do though. No way I could plant a Pineapple tomato, as much as I'd like to. Wall O'Waters really worked well last year for me. Lake Lady they kept the maters alive in the low-20s, I just tied the tops up when it got that cold. The walls did freeze, but the plants were okay! A couple of plants got taller than the WOWs and got nipped, but I just trimmed off the damage and the plants did great. I think WOWs help them put down a good root system. I had one plant, a Select Blue out in a WOW on May 1, and another out on June 18 (yes, it was that late in 2011 before it was safe.) The tomato that had been in a WOW was twice the size (7' before I stopped it) and had at least 3 times as many tomatoes on it. Kurt, I'll have to revisit the pruning issue. Sounds intriguing.

bobberman · January 6, 2012

My advice make a small solar greenhouse with 2 by 4's and flake board . You will extend your spring season by 2 months! Its cheap and quick with cheap double layer plastic. a 10 by 12 for less than $200. just dd water and 50 gallon drums.!

kath · January 6, 2012

I'm in 6b and have grown over 400 varieties so far, but most only once, and follow pretty much the same planting timetable that you described. Most of these have also been pruned to single, double or triple vines so that may affect final height, but I've had many go way over 6'. It seems the ones described as semi-determinate or compact determinate are the ones that will stop at 5-6'. When a variety outgrows its support, which is usually 6-7", I top it if I don't care for the taste, or let it go if I do.

It seems that varieties that have been described as vigorous indeterminates or tall indeterminates will keep on going to 10' or more- I don't measure, but will let it fold over and grow back towards the ground, or attach the vines to horizontal supports and let them grow.

kurt · January 6, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobinB

Okay, the map MUST be wrong. No way I'm in 6b. Zone 5 maybe... except for the fact that the zones are by temperature and the range for 6b is about right. People in Canada have longer growing seasons than me! The last two years we've had snow and lows in the 20s in early June. Usually, I can't plant out without protection until mid-June and first frost is early October. Over the years, I've figured out what I need to do though. No way I could plant a Pineapple tomato, as much as I'd like to. Wall O'Waters really worked well last year for me. Lake Lady they kept the maters alive in the low-20s, I just tied the tops up when it got that cold. The walls did freeze, but the plants were okay! A couple of plants got taller than the WOWs and got nipped, but I just trimmed off the damage and the plants did great. I think WOWs help them put down a good root system. I had one plant, a Select Blue out in a WOW on May 1, and another out on June 18 (yes, it was that late in 2011 before it was safe.) The tomato that had been in a WOW was twice the size (7' before I stopped it) and had at least 3 times as many tomatoes on it. Kurt, I'll have to revisit the pruning issue. Sounds intriguing.

Over the years I found out timing the ripedness of the cherry tressles play a important part.When the first starts to ripen and then the second I could basically time the end of the plants life versus when the S Miami heat sets in and the tropical rains come and cause a lot of havoc in beating the flowers off the plants and the humidity encourages the fungal spores and the bug population explodes.This is why I only choose the suckers early and leaders for as I know then they will produce berrys that I can harvest,otherwise all that extra growth and care dos nothing for me but look nice.Good Luck Kurt

Father'sDaughter · January 6, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobberman

How deep do you plant the tomatoes that get thet big.? Do you feed them all summer since the size seems to drain the soil?

Bobberman, I plant them almost up to the bottom leaves and last summer I think I threw some Tomato Tone down at least twice, maybe a third time--but I can't remember. They also stay well hydrated as we have an inground sprinkler system and I positioned my garden beds so that they get watered along with the lawn. Like Kath, I also stake and prune to about three stems, so I guess that may have something to do with the height. And like her, when they outgrew their supports, I just let them flop over and grow downward.

RobinB · January 6, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobberman

My advice make a small solar greenhouse with 2 by 4's and flake board . You will extend your spring season by 2 months! Its cheap and quick with cheap double layer plastic. a 10 by 12 for less than $200. just dd water and 50 gallon drums.!

I'd love to see this, do you have any photos of what you're talking about?

bobberman · January 6, 2012

I don't know how to post pictures sine I use a high speed web tv. I can explain how to make one and its easy! My new one is a A frame!
+++
I first made a 2 foot high fram in a rectangle. The sides were 16 feet long and 12 feet wide! You can make a much smaller one. I them made a frame with 2 by 10's that was 10 feet high and 16 feet long. I set that up on the 2 foot frame so the total height was 12 feet. i did that on both sides them had them meet in the middle of the 12 by 16 area and formed a A frame! The north side I covered with 6 sheets of flake board at $8 each! The south side I used 6 mill plastic on the outside and 3 mill on the inside!. The side of the A frame on the side the sun comes up I put plastic the other side the door! The inside north wall I insulated with foam borad with a alum shinny side facing inside the greenhouse. Iput about500 of water in 50 gallon drums inside and I now have a solar water heated greenhouse! I put the whole thing up in 6 hours myself! I made the 8 by 10 frames first and connected two together to lessen the weight! Any questios?

MikeInOhio · January 6, 2012

Seamfaster has the system you should shoot for. I'm in zone 6 too (the zones have shifted north, by the way) and I start my tomatoes in mid March. I plant them in a raised bed after warming the soil with warm water around May 15th. I often times have 6-footers by July 4th, but genetics obviously has a lot to do with it.

I also wanted to mention that a 12" raised bed over tilled soil is perfect in out area. I fill the bed with composted cow manure, composted chicken manure, and leaf mold. I then add about 15% sand, and I find this mix to be perfect. We get quite a bit of precipitation here (51" last year) so the sand can be scaled back. I add calcium and a few other organic fertilizers over the course of the summer.

I start about twice as many plants as I intend to plant and pick out the most vigorous growers. I think this really helps. You also need to pay careful attention to the plant's roots when you transplant them. You want them to have plenty of sandy, loose soil to spread well.

SEAMSFASTER · January 7, 2012

The USDA cold hardiness zones are only part of the equation. They give a range of average coldest temperature of the year over many years. This information is especially useful when considering which perennial plants can survive the winter in a given area.

For growing annuals, frost-free days is probably a more useful guide than cold hardiness zone. Living near a large body of water can influence growing season lenth as well. I live near the Great Salt Lake, which moderates temperature extremes somewhat and gives us a 176 day growing season - plenty of time (most years) to grow all the late-season varieties.

Areas at higher elevations generally have more extreme temperature swings, both daily and annually, than areas at lower elevations of the same latitude. I don't guess there are many people at 9,000' plus elevation that have much success with growing tomatoes without protection, even near the equator.

AHS heat zones can also be taken into account. For example, an area might have long, mild summers - great for cruciferous veggies, marginal for tomatoes, not much good at all for melons. See: http://www.plantsdb.gr/en/general-cu...ardiness-zones

For the 17' tall structure, I started with 10' long double thick wall pipes from a scrap yard. I pounded these 3' into the soil, so they were all level and even at 7' tall, 3' apart. By June 29th, several plants were already pushing the 7' mark, so I attached 10' long metal conduit pipes on top of those.

Yes, I transplanted very deep, about 12-15", depending upon the size of the seedlings. I also fed them occasionally with a liquid fish emulsion and sea kelp extract solution throughout the season.

I pruned to 1-3 stems using the modified Missouri pruning method. Just ahead of the first hard frost on 11-09-2010, I harvested 102 tomatoes (mostly green, of course) off of a single Cuostralée plant - a plant that was almost killed in May because someone sprayed herbicide in the area.

For my 2'X33' tomato bed, I dug a 2' deep trench, put about 4" of wood chips down (for drainage), and incorporated leaves, manures and other amendments. I also buried a 55-gallon drum to ground level. While filling the trench, I installed two layers of scrap metal pipes (at 12" and 5" below the surface), connected these to the 55 gal. drum and installed a small pump, water heater, float valve and thermostatic control.

This setup permitted pumping of 80° F water through the pipes. When I transplanted the tomatoes on the first day of Spring, the soil temperature was 74° (probably too warm) at 4" down, compared to 40° in the main garden.

In 2011, with some modifications, I had 11 plants in this bed out-produce 66 plants in the main garden, though I have to admit that limited sunlight in the main garden was the major reason for the difference in productivity.

I'm working on something even more radical for 2012...

RobinB · January 7, 2012

Wow, Seamsfaster, that's intense! I can't wait to see what you decide to do for 2012! Yes, I have somewhere between 110 and 120 days usually. The last two years, we had about 3 extra weeks at the end of the summer season and it was a gift!

goodwin · January 16, 2012

We're in zone 6, and of course every year is different and some varieties really climb. But reflected heat can make a huge difference as well.
Ignore the simple fellow in the foreground - the simple 8 foot coyote fence behind helped these Orange Strawberry plants reach over 12 feet!

Riceloft · January 17, 2012

In zone 5 with only about 6 hours of sunlight per day, my tomato plants have ranged from 5ft to 7ft the last two years.

January 6, 2012	#17
bobberman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Latrobe Pa. Posts: 142	My advice make a small solar greenhouse with 2 by 4's and flake board . You will extend your spring season by 2 months! Its cheap and quick with cheap double layer plastic. a 10 by 12 for less than $200. just dd water and 50 gallon drums.! __________________ Frank the Bobberman & Carpet Installer Inventor of the Bobber With A Brain,. Gadening, Greenhouse, Fishing, Softball, Scrabble. Single looking for a woman with a 100 acre farm!

January 6, 2012	#22
bobberman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Latrobe Pa. Posts: 142	I don't know how to post pictures sine I use a high speed web tv. I can explain how to make one and its easy! My new one is a A frame! +++ I first made a 2 foot high fram in a rectangle. The sides were 16 feet long and 12 feet wide! You can make a much smaller one. I them made a frame with 2 by 10's that was 10 feet high and 16 feet long. I set that up on the 2 foot frame so the total height was 12 feet. i did that on both sides them had them meet in the middle of the 12 by 16 area and formed a A frame! The north side I covered with 6 sheets of flake board at $8 each! The south side I used 6 mill plastic on the outside and 3 mill on the inside!. The side of the A frame on the side the sun comes up I put plastic the other side the door! The inside north wall I insulated with foam borad with a alum shinny side facing inside the greenhouse. Iput about500 of water in 50 gallon drums inside and I now have a solar water heated greenhouse! I put the whole thing up in 6 hours myself! I made the 8 by 10 frames first and connected two together to lessen the weight! Any questios? __________________ Frank the Bobberman & Carpet Installer Inventor of the Bobber With A Brain,. Gadening, Greenhouse, Fishing, Softball, Scrabble. Single looking for a woman with a 100 acre farm!

January 6, 2012	#16
RobinB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Near Reno, NV Posts: 1,621	Okay, the map MUST be wrong. No way I'm in 6b. Zone 5 maybe... except for the fact that the zones are by temperature and the range for 6b is about right. People in Canada have longer growing seasons than me! The last two years we've had snow and lows in the 20s in early June. Usually, I can't plant out without protection until mid-June and first frost is early October. Over the years, I've figured out what I need to do though. No way I could plant a Pineapple tomato, as much as I'd like to. Wall O'Waters really worked well last year for me. Lake Lady they kept the maters alive in the low-20s, I just tied the tops up when it got that cold. The walls did freeze, but the plants were okay! A couple of plants got taller than the WOWs and got nipped, but I just trimmed off the damage and the plants did great. I think WOWs help them put down a good root system. I had one plant, a Select Blue out in a WOW on May 1, and another out on June 18 (yes, it was that late in 2011 before it was safe.) The tomato that had been in a WOW was twice the size (7' before I stopped it) and had at least 3 times as many tomatoes on it. Kurt, I'll have to revisit the pruning issue. Sounds intriguing.

January 6, 2012	#18
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	I'm in 6b and have grown over 400 varieties so far, but most only once, and follow pretty much the same planting timetable that you described. Most of these have also been pruned to single, double or triple vines so that may affect final height, but I've had many go way over 6'. It seems the ones described as semi-determinate or compact determinate are the ones that will stop at 5-6'. When a variety outgrows its support, which is usually 6-7", I top it if I don't care for the taste, or let it go if I do. It seems that varieties that have been described as vigorous indeterminates or tall indeterminates will keep on going to 10' or more- I don't measure, but will let it fold over and grow back towards the ground, or attach the vines to horizontal supports and let them grow.

January 6, 2012	#23
MikeInOhio Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 132	Seamfaster has the system you should shoot for. I'm in zone 6 too (the zones have shifted north, by the way) and I start my tomatoes in mid March. I plant them in a raised bed after warming the soil with warm water around May 15th. I often times have 6-footers by July 4th, but genetics obviously has a lot to do with it. I also wanted to mention that a 12" raised bed over tilled soil is perfect in out area. I fill the bed with composted cow manure, composted chicken manure, and leaf mold. I then add about 15% sand, and I find this mix to be perfect. We get quite a bit of precipitation here (51" last year) so the sand can be scaled back. I add calcium and a few other organic fertilizers over the course of the summer. I start about twice as many plants as I intend to plant and pick out the most vigorous growers. I think this really helps. You also need to pay careful attention to the plant's roots when you transplant them. You want them to have plenty of sandy, loose soil to spread well.

January 7, 2012	#24
SEAMSFASTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: American Fork, Utah Posts: 160	The USDA cold hardiness zones are only part of the equation. They give a range of average coldest temperature of the year over many years. This information is especially useful when considering which perennial plants can survive the winter in a given area. For growing annuals, frost-free days is probably a more useful guide than cold hardiness zone. Living near a large body of water can influence growing season lenth as well. I live near the Great Salt Lake, which moderates temperature extremes somewhat and gives us a 176 day growing season - plenty of time (most years) to grow all the late-season varieties. Areas at higher elevations generally have more extreme temperature swings, both daily and annually, than areas at lower elevations of the same latitude. I don't guess there are many people at 9,000' plus elevation that have much success with growing tomatoes without protection, even near the equator. AHS heat zones can also be taken into account. For example, an area might have long, mild summers - great for cruciferous veggies, marginal for tomatoes, not much good at all for melons. See: http://www.plantsdb.gr/en/general-cu...ardiness-zones For the 17' tall structure, I started with 10' long double thick wall pipes from a scrap yard. I pounded these 3' into the soil, so they were all level and even at 7' tall, 3' apart. By June 29th, several plants were already pushing the 7' mark, so I attached 10' long metal conduit pipes on top of those. Yes, I transplanted very deep, about 12-15", depending upon the size of the seedlings. I also fed them occasionally with a liquid fish emulsion and sea kelp extract solution throughout the season. I pruned to 1-3 stems using the modified Missouri pruning method. Just ahead of the first hard frost on 11-09-2010, I harvested 102 tomatoes (mostly green, of course) off of a single Cuostralée plant - a plant that was almost killed in May because someone sprayed herbicide in the area. For my 2'X33' tomato bed, I dug a 2' deep trench, put about 4" of wood chips down (for drainage), and incorporated leaves, manures and other amendments. I also buried a 55-gallon drum to ground level. While filling the trench, I installed two layers of scrap metal pipes (at 12" and 5" below the surface), connected these to the 55 gal. drum and installed a small pump, water heater, float valve and thermostatic control. This setup permitted pumping of 80° F water through the pipes. When I transplanted the tomatoes on the first day of Spring, the soil temperature was 74° (probably too warm) at 4" down, compared to 40° in the main garden. In 2011, with some modifications, I had 11 plants in this bed out-produce 66 plants in the main garden, though I have to admit that limited sunlight in the main garden was the major reason for the difference in productivity. I'm working on something even more radical for 2012...

January 17, 2012	#27
Riceloft Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Parma, Ohio (6a) Posts: 299	In zone 5 with only about 6 hours of sunlight per day, my tomato plants have ranged from 5ft to 7ft the last two years.