Questions about Manure and Composting

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by rws-NH-45

If you're using manure from your own chickens, you know what they've been fed, etc. When we raised chickens they got fresh air and scratched all around the yard. But I read some spooky stuff about how chickens are kept in "factory farms."

It's easy to imagine chicken poo from them being full of nasty stuff that you wouldn't want to get your hands in, let alone have it splash on your food.

I got manure from a family that raises Llamas or Alpacas (forgot which), and I spread some of it on some of my raised beds last fall. If I turn it under 4 weeks before I plant, what do you think about E coli from them? I was planning on planting Black Cherry tomatoes and Carrots in one of those beds.

I hope I haven't/don't cause anyone to worry about or shy away from using manure in their gardens because I sure won't. Your llama or alpaca manure you spread last winter is a very typical usage for all kinds of manures for all kinds of crops.

The concern here is surface contamination of the produce not that the plants themselves will contain a pathogen. The university extension sites I visited were focusing on root and leaf crops. They are in direct contact or splashed with soil and manure. The leaf crops can be hard to clean too. Other crops like broccoli, cauliflower, corn, beans, squash and tomatoes etc. aren't really at issue. Root crops should be fine too as long as they are washed well. "...as long as they are washed well", Hmm... seems like my mother taught me that and she probably never heared of E. Coli...

I have used fresh manure from my own chickens without reservation or problem for the past 10 years. I will continue to use it but probably shy away from using the fresh stuff to prepare the beds for my lettuce, spinach and beat greens. I will not side dress them with any rotted manure either. Other than that it is buisness as usual for me.

[ddsack]

Goat or rabbit is the BOMB...does not even have to be aged. Chicken poo needs to be well aged and have been rained on or sprinkled mechanically to wash out the urea.

I've been noticing all the pellet piles the deer have left around our property. I'm thinking it must be more similar to goat droppings than anything else. I'm tempted to scoop some up and do a little top dressing, or shallow dig-in around plants. Anyone tried deer manure?

[JoeP]

I got my free rabbit manure today and it was not what I expected. The mounds were under several hutches and were wet and stinking something awful. I was not sure if the smell was urine or something rotting. Some of it looked more like wet alfalfa pellets rather than rabbit manure pellets. (I know - rabbit pellets were once alfalfa pellets - but the color and texture were different.)

I decided not to use it in the garden. I put it in our "pile" where we dump lawn debris and used chicken coop straw. I didn't want to risk putting something bad in the garden.

I still have a source of year old cow and horse manure (aged but not composted). But I don't know if their hay source sprays weedkiller on their fields. I bet the cow and horse owners don't know if their hay is contaminated either.

I need to reread earlier posts about the weedkiller.

I recieved a fancy store-bought composter (two 50 gallon tubs) as a gift. It has an internal perforated metal tube to allow air in and out. I will use this to compost/age my fresh chicken poo.

I am disappointed about the rabbit manure. I just don't trust it.

[sfmathews]

Joe, sorry to hear about your experience with rabbit poo. I got some once like that from someone. I didn't get it from them again. It should not be scooped out directly from under the cages, as you are right, it's soaking wet with urine. It should be scooped from the far sides of the cage, where it has had time to dry out some. When it's like this, it won't stink. Alot of what I got was already dry and broken down into crumbly goodness. You are right, though it should make awesome compost (and you might get a bunch of red worms in the process!)
Good luck!

Susan

[sfmathews]

I did. The guy lives about an hour from me. Those 12 bags were the most I could cram in my trunk and in the car. Thankfully it doesn't stink!
He said he sure wishes more people came to clean out his rabbit sheds. There are only about a handful of people who do so on a regular basis. I hope to keep going out every month or so to get more.

Originally Posted by RebelRidin

P.S. Did you get that manure for free? Congrats on a nice score if so

[dice]

The dodgy rabbit manure would probably compost ok.

One thing about aminopyralid: alfalfa, bales or meal or pellets, will
not have it. It kills alfalfa, so farmers can not use it on alfalfa fields.

[Tracydr]

Deer manure is much like goat or sheep manure, since they have similar digestive systems.

[JoeP]

Is horse manure that has been aged in a pile for 5 or 6 years in the Pacific Northwest with lots of rain still benificial? Will it have any nitrogen left to offer the plants?

Today I found a source of horse manure from a boarding facility. I haven't seen it but the lady said she probably had 200 to 300 yards of aged horse manure. She said it looks like dirt instead of manure. She gets her hay from eastern Washington so I have to assume if they are trucking it across the state, that the grower/seller are using the herbicide to ensure weed free hay.

I suspect that this would be old enough to not have any of the herbicide in it?

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Is horse manure that has been aged in a pile for 5 or 6 years in the Pacific Northwest with lots of rain still benificial? Will it have any nitrogen left to offer the plants?

Today I found a source of horse manure from a boarding facility. I haven't seen it but the lady said she probably had 200 to 300 yards of aged horse manure. She said it looks like dirt instead of manure. She gets her hay from eastern Washington so I have to assume if they are trucking it across the state, that the grower/seller are using the herbicide to ensure weed free hay.

I suspect that this would be old enough to not have any of the herbicide in it?

Your instincts may be right that the material may not have a great deal of N available at this point. Still it will have more than any run of the mill soil and compost, any compost, is great for building soil structure. No harm and probably a lot of benefit to tilling in a few to several inches.

I would be surprised if material that age had herbicide problems but I have no specific knowledge of the practices in your area or the half-life of that material.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by dice

The dodgy rabbit manure would probably compost ok.

One thing about aminopyralid: alfalfa, bales or meal or pellets, will
not have it. It kills alfalfa, so farmers can not use it on alfalfa fields.

Probably why I never have a problem with my manure. I only feed alfalfa to my horses.

[ArcherB]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I got my free rabbit manure today and it was not what I expected. The mounds were under several hutches and were wet and stinking something awful. I was not sure if the smell was urine or something rotting. Some of it looked more like wet alfalfa pellets rather than rabbit manure pellets. (I know - rabbit pellets were once alfalfa pellets - but the color and texture were different.)

...

I am disappointed about the rabbit manure. I just don't trust it.

The stuff I got was like that. The stuff I got was manure, those pellets I believe you are talking about, straw, and judging by the ammonia smell, lots of urine. The pellets in my case were compressed sawdust. It breaks up when wet.


I put it on the compost pile, mixed and covered with leaves and let it sit for a couple of months. It heated up really well and quit stinking within a couple of days. To my amazement, the straw disappeared very quickly. I went out there one day and it was gone. The manure broke down next as there are no more "milk duds" recognizable. Now all that remains is the sawdust which works into the soil quite well. Also, for the first time ever, I have worms in my compost pile. I'm actually quite impressed with what I ended up with. I even made a new raised bed with the stuff and planted some extra plants I had sitting around in it straight. We'll see how they do.

As for the place I got the stuff, it is a bunny rescue place. They take unwanted bunnies and find people that want to adopt them as pets. Being that they are basically a charity, I can't really complain about the quality of the stuff I got, especially since it is run by volunteers. Either way, it appears to have worked out quite well so far and I don't have any problems.

[dice]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Is horse manure that has been aged in a pile for 5 or 6 years in the Pacific Northwest with lots of rain still benificial? Will it have any nitrogen left to offer the plants?

The nitrogen level will be about like generic compost, or maybe like
earthworm castings, but it will be great compost as far as organic matter,
soil structure, etc. Most of the phosphorus that was in it orginally should
still be there. It would certainly make a big improvement in typical
Western Washington subsoil.

I cannot guarantee no herbicides, but I used manure around 2007 from
someone that bought all of her hay from Eastern Washington, no
problems. (Testing with some susceptible, fast-growing broadleaf
plant before spreading it on your garden is still the best practice here.)

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by dice

(Testing with some susceptible, fast-growing broadleaf
plant before spreading it on your garden is still the best practice here.)

Would transplaning a broadleaf plant (like a lettuce start) give the same results as planting seeds to test for the herbicide presence?

[dice]

Yes, lettuce is susceptible. I was just looking for a picture of
aminopyralid affected lettuce, but most of my bookmarks are
on a different computer. That Whatcom County site I have posted
before might have it.

edit: Alas, no lettuce picture, but a number of other plants
with aminopyralid damage:
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/