National geographic Mag

FILMNET · May 15, 2012

This was a page on the magazine now, terrible news for the next generations

JamesL · May 15, 2012

Wow. That is a disturbing graphic.
Thanks for posting it.

Sun City Linda · May 15, 2012

That IS shocking. And very sad.

Wi-sunflower · May 15, 2012

Also very misleading in my opinion.

If you don't understand that the national seed storage lab does NOT have samples of ALL varieties. Not even all varieties offered by the big name seed companies let alone us small fry companies.

Carol

RayR · May 15, 2012

I don't understand the relationship either Carol. 1903 commercial seed houses vs. 1983 National Seed Storage Laboratory?

Doug9345 · May 15, 2012

It also appears that they are comparing apples and oranges. They are comparing a list of varieties listed in seed catalogs from 1903 to just one place that has old varieties.

Doug9345 · May 15, 2012

Ray you and I cross posted and said the same thing.

Mudman · May 15, 2012

I think they made the graphic first and then got some info to match. It looks like a plant.

livinonfaith · May 15, 2012

Ummm, I know if you go to Tatiana's or Dave's Garden or several other places that keep track of lots of the tomato varieties, there are thousands of varieties listed. Not all of them are available commercially, but a lot are.

A holy ton more than 69!

Just goes to show that you have to take everything you read with a grain of salt. (Preferably the kind that goes around the top of your margarita glass.)

FILMNET · May 16, 2012

I Agree who is this National seed storage? Ive never herd of them before?

MikeInCypress · May 16, 2012

The graphic states that in 1983 only 79 of the 408 tomato varieties previously listed were still available in seed catalogs. Two issues. That data is 29 years old. How many of those lost varieties have been found in the ensuing 29 years and are available to the public today? How many new varieties have been developed since 1903?

MikeInCypress

**carolyn137** · May 16, 2012

SSE has tracked all of the information about the loss of varieties and from time to time data is given in the YEarbooks.

THey also publish, from time to time, seed inventory books, the one available now is the Fruit, Berry and Nut Inventory but I don't see the other one with tomatoes in it right now, so perhaps that's the next one to be updated.

The National Seed Storage Lab ( NSSL) is in Fort Collins, CO. And now speaking to tomatoes only, it's the place where tomato seed is stored long term.

When you look in the annual Yearbooks you can find various varieties listed as NSSL or NSL, with an accession number and that means that the seed came from the NSSL.

Here's how it works. When it was still possible for non-researchers to request seeds from the USDA, as Craig L and I did in the early 90's, you sent your request to the USDA station that did the growouts for tomatoes and that's in Geneva, NY.

If they don't have a variety in stock the request is then sent to the NSSL in Fort Collins.

I'm now looking at a YEarbook from the early 90's and I see Craig listing the variety King George, NSL 43554 and he notes he got the seeds from me.

Under that is he lists King Humbert, NSL 27372 and he noted he got the seeds from me.

And I could be listing some NSL varieties and noting I got the seeds from him, b/c we were both requesting varieties and then sharing the seeds between us.

The USDA doe NOT maintain stocks of what we could call heirloom varieties, with few exceptions, so what Craig and I were after were the older commercial varieties from the late 1800's to perhaps the 1930's. And when we were publishing our international newsletter on tomatoes we introduced and described all of them there as well as SSE listing them.

If you go to Mike Dunton's Victory Seeds and look at the list of Livingston varieties you'll see that many of them have an NSL accession numbers.

Yes, the disappearance of tomato varieties has been profound, but at the same time the appearance of many wonderful heirloom varieties and interest in them has exploded with the appearance of many new seed companies, most of them small and family run.

When I first started growing heirloom varieties in the early 80's there were just two places to go to, I didn't know about SSE at that time, and those two places were GlecklerSeedmen and Seeds Blum, the latter went out of business, but Adam has resurrected the company his grandfather started, which passed to his father and then to him.

SESE and TGS started in the late 80's. I joined SSE in 1989, I think Craig a year earlier, and there was no looking back once I had those Yearbooks in hand.

Hope that helps explain what NSSL, aka NSL, is and where it is and how it functions.

May 15, 2012	#8
Mudman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NW Wisconsin Posts: 910	I think they made the graphic first and then got some info to match. It looks like a plant. __________________ Mike

May 16, 2012	#11
MikeInCypress Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 963	The graphic states that in 1983 only 79 of the 408 tomato varieties previously listed were still available in seed catalogs. Two issues. That data is 29 years old. How many of those lost varieties have been found in the ensuing 29 years and are available to the public today? How many new varieties have been developed since 1903? MikeInCypress __________________ "Growing older, not up"

May 16, 2012	#12
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	SSE has tracked all of the information about the loss of varieties and from time to time data is given in the YEarbooks. THey also publish, from time to time, seed inventory books, the one available now is the Fruit, Berry and Nut Inventory but I don't see the other one with tomatoes in it right now, so perhaps that's the next one to be updated. The National Seed Storage Lab ( NSSL) is in Fort Collins, CO. And now speaking to tomatoes only, it's the place where tomato seed is stored long term. When you look in the annual Yearbooks you can find various varieties listed as NSSL or NSL, with an accession number and that means that the seed came from the NSSL. Here's how it works. When it was still possible for non-researchers to request seeds from the USDA, as Craig L and I did in the early 90's, you sent your request to the USDA station that did the growouts for tomatoes and that's in Geneva, NY. If they don't have a variety in stock the request is then sent to the NSSL in Fort Collins. I'm now looking at a YEarbook from the early 90's and I see Craig listing the variety King George, NSL 43554 and he notes he got the seeds from me. Under that is he lists King Humbert, NSL 27372 and he noted he got the seeds from me. And I could be listing some NSL varieties and noting I got the seeds from him, b/c we were both requesting varieties and then sharing the seeds between us. The USDA doe NOT maintain stocks of what we could call heirloom varieties, with few exceptions, so what Craig and I were after were the older commercial varieties from the late 1800's to perhaps the 1930's. And when we were publishing our international newsletter on tomatoes we introduced and described all of them there as well as SSE listing them. If you go to Mike Dunton's Victory Seeds and look at the list of Livingston varieties you'll see that many of them have an NSL accession numbers. Yes, the disappearance of tomato varieties has been profound, but at the same time the appearance of many wonderful heirloom varieties and interest in them has exploded with the appearance of many new seed companies, most of them small and family run. When I first started growing heirloom varieties in the early 80's there were just two places to go to, I didn't know about SSE at that time, and those two places were GlecklerSeedmen and Seeds Blum, the latter went out of business, but Adam has resurrected the company his grandfather started, which passed to his father and then to him. SESE and TGS started in the late 80's. I joined SSE in 1989, I think Craig a year earlier, and there was no looking back once I had those Yearbooks in hand. Hope that helps explain what NSSL, aka NSL, is and where it is and how it functions. __________________ Carolyn

May 15, 2012	#2
JamesL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 1,992	Wow. That is a disturbing graphic. Thanks for posting it.

May 15, 2012	#3
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	That IS shocking. And very sad.

May 15, 2012	#4
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	Also very misleading in my opinion. If you don't understand that the national seed storage lab does NOT have samples of ALL varieties. Not even all varieties offered by the big name seed companies let alone us small fry companies. Carol

May 15, 2012	#5
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,468	I don't understand the relationship either Carol. 1903 commercial seed houses vs. 1983 National Seed Storage Laboratory?

May 15, 2012	#6
Doug9345 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Durhamville,NY Posts: 2,706	It also appears that they are comparing apples and oranges. They are comparing a list of varieties listed in seed catalogs from 1903 to just one place that has old varieties.

May 15, 2012	#9
livinonfaith Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina Posts: 1,332	Ummm, I know if you go to Tatiana's or Dave's Garden or several other places that keep track of lots of the tomato varieties, there are thousands of varieties listed. Not all of them are available commercially, but a lot are. A holy ton more than 69! Just goes to show that you have to take everything you read with a grain of salt. (Preferably the kind that goes around the top of your margarita glass.)

May 16, 2012	#10
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	I Agree who is this National seed storage? Ive never herd of them before?