Should I set out 4 inch seedlings?

ScottinAtlanta · June 28, 2012

Folks, I am starting my second set of plantings, and the seedlings (sowed 10 June) are around 4 inches high with 3rd or 4th set of true leaves.

Is there any value to waiting for them to grow more before hardening them and setting them out? Or should I plant them out now?

Yes, that little PL is a Gary'O Sena. Thank you, FortyOneNorth.

ScottinAtlanta · June 29, 2012

Folks, any thoughts on that question?

Doug9345 · June 29, 2012

What's their growing conditions now. How much light are they getting. I don't have a feel for how hot and humid it is now in Georgia as opposed to what it will be like in a couple of weeks. My gut is to start hardening them off.

ScottinAtlanta · June 29, 2012

They are under flourescent lights, growing quickly, about a quarter inch a day.

It is hitting 100 degrees in Atlanta this weekend, and very dry. Perhaps I should wait for some relief in the temps/drought.

Doug9345 · June 29, 2012

Since they are growing well inside I think I'd keep doing what you are doing.

Sun City Linda · June 29, 2012

The problem with planting them out so small is they are just about a mouthful for a grasshopper.

ContainerTed · June 29, 2012

Scott, I lived in the Buford area for about 15 years and moved here to Tennessee a couple of years ago. Down there in Georgia, I grew all of mine in containers. This time of year, you will need to give those seedlings some shade and lots on only indirect sunlight (reflected off anything light in color). The shade will also help with fruit set by keeping things a bit cooler. "Hot-lanta" is just too hot and humid in mid summer for good tomato growing. You're gonna have to work at it a bit more.

Go easy on the fertilizers as they tend to burn quickly in higher temps. Most of all, be ready to closely monitor the watering issues. You still have plenty of time to get mature plants before frost, but you'll need to closely monitor them. The sun can kill those new babies in an hour. After they are hardened off, when you first put them out, keep them in the shade with only minor ventures into the hot direct sun - say, 20 minutes at a time.

Good luck.

JohnWayne · June 29, 2012

Scott, I can't address your exact situation. I set out 4 inch plants and they are the strongest in the garden. But mine were started a long while before yours (well over a month) and outside to boot. I would have thought that in Atlanta you could have sown seed into the ground that late and raised tomatoes ?

Forgive me for not understanding but why start them indoors and have to worry with hardening off ?

b54red · June 30, 2012

Scott I am near your location but 200 miles south and my plants are at the same stage as yours. I have already started setting my 3 to 4 inch plants outside in a shady area protected from the worst of the hot dry winds we are having. When they get around 8 inches tall I will move them into full sunshine and keep the cups watered at least twice a day until we get a cloudy or rainy day and then will start setting them out. I have put up shade cloth over most of my beds where they will be going and will have plenty of mulch to keep the ground cool.

I think you should wait a couple of days until this awful heat wave eases before setting them outside even in the shade. The ones that I set out about a week ago are getting about 2 hours of mid day sun each day and have done fine but I set them out originally during a cloudy spell. If you really want to start right now then I would set them where there is very good shade and watch them closely and keep them well watered and as soon as the heat breaks move them to where they will get some sun each day and gradually move them to direct sun. It takes at least a week of setting out in the direct sun for them to get hardened off enough to set out this time of the year and you could still lose some of them when they go into the garden. Another thing to watch out for once they are outside hardening off this time of the year is spider mites which can devastate seedlings much faster than mature plants. I have sprayed mine already for spider mites and after they are all outside I will do it again.

Another thing you can do which will help is once the area you are going to plant into is prepared, is to water it really well about 2 days before you are going to set your plants out and then mulch it heavily to keep the ground cool so there is as little shock as possible when they are set out. Then when you set them out into the moist soil just pull back the mulch and plant them, then pull the mulch back into plance. Don't water them for as long as possible after setting them out so the roots can get established as fast as possible. I have found that watering right after setting them out in the heat increases the incidence of bacterial wilt.

Good luck. You will need it when planting this time of the year. I always start at least 4 times as many plants as I think I will need because I lose a good many during the first two weeks of planting out but if you don't have bad fusarium wilt in your soil you shouldn't lose so many.

ScottinAtlanta · June 30, 2012

Thanks to everyone who responded, particularly my fellow Southerners. I will follow your advice and wait a few days - one good thunderstorm should break this heat. The tomatoes are growing at close to half an inch a day now under lights.

JohnWayne, the hazards for little seedlings are so huge outdoors, I thought I would get more success inside. Plus a dear sister on this Forum sent me some 2005 seeds that I thought needed extra care. The Mule Team, the White Queen, the Isis Candy, did well with 2005 seeds. The Old Virginia did not.

For those who like peppers, I have an incandescent orange pepper (about 3 inches) that I found in a Thai grocery store, and that is growing like made in the cup. I have plenty of seeds if anyone wants one. I also have a tiny Vietnamese red pepper that they use in pho noodles - I saved several seeds, and the seedlings are going like crazy.

Solanum315 · July 1, 2012

Scott,
I don't think the size of the plants is as much of an issue as hardening off. That is going to be somewhat of a process in Atlanta whether you set them out at 4" or 12". Must be exciting to grow the seeds you collected overseas. Out of all my seeds, the ones I value the most are the ones I personally gathered at markets while travelling. You know any openings in USAID for an ex-military officer with a JD?

I have applied through USAJOBS but I get the feeling that is generally a canned process where they already have someone in mind and are just advertising the job to comply with statutory requirements.

ScottinAtlanta · July 1, 2012

101 here in Atlanta today. I am watering my raised beds almost daily - the heat seems to suck the moisture right out of the beds and plants. My tomatoes are still flowering - the extra water must be what they need.

The seedlings, now 5-6 inches tall, are sitting beside a window that gets indirect sunlight. After a couple of days, I will give them an hour of direct, then move to 2 hours, then outside on the porch, where they get 4 a day. Next week, we should have cooler weather, and a thunderstorm or two, and they will go out, with plenty of mulch, and maybe a floating cover for days over 95. Thanks to all for your advice.

June 29, 2012	#7
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Scott, I lived in the Buford area for about 15 years and moved here to Tennessee a couple of years ago. Down there in Georgia, I grew all of mine in containers. This time of year, you will need to give those seedlings some shade and lots on only indirect sunlight (reflected off anything light in color). The shade will also help with fruit set by keeping things a bit cooler. "Hot-lanta" is just too hot and humid in mid summer for good tomato growing. You're gonna have to work at it a bit more. Go easy on the fertilizers as they tend to burn quickly in higher temps. Most of all, be ready to closely monitor the watering issues. You still have plenty of time to get mature plants before frost, but you'll need to closely monitor them. The sun can kill those new babies in an hour. After they are hardened off, when you first put them out, keep them in the shade with only minor ventures into the hot direct sun - say, 20 minutes at a time. Good luck. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

July 1, 2012	#11
Solanum315 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New York Posts: 244	Scott, I don't think the size of the plants is as much of an issue as hardening off. That is going to be somewhat of a process in Atlanta whether you set them out at 4" or 12". Must be exciting to grow the seeds you collected overseas. Out of all my seeds, the ones I value the most are the ones I personally gathered at markets while travelling. You know any openings in USAID for an ex-military officer with a JD? I have applied through USAJOBS but I get the feeling that is generally a canned process where they already have someone in mind and are just advertising the job to comply with statutory requirements. __________________ Scott http://worldtomatoes.blogspot.com/

June 29, 2012	#2
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	Folks, any thoughts on that question?

June 29, 2012	#3
Doug9345 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Durhamville,NY Posts: 2,706	What's their growing conditions now. How much light are they getting. I don't have a feel for how hot and humid it is now in Georgia as opposed to what it will be like in a couple of weeks. My gut is to start hardening them off.

June 29, 2012	#6
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	The problem with planting them out so small is they are just about a mouthful for a grasshopper.

June 29, 2012	#8
JohnWayne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Hickory,North Carolina Posts: 470	Scott, I can't address your exact situation. I set out 4 inch plants and they are the strongest in the garden. But mine were started a long while before yours (well over a month) and outside to boot. I would have thought that in Atlanta you could have sown seed into the ground that late and raised tomatoes ? Forgive me for not understanding but why start them indoors and have to worry with hardening off ?

June 30, 2012	#9
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Scott I am near your location but 200 miles south and my plants are at the same stage as yours. I have already started setting my 3 to 4 inch plants outside in a shady area protected from the worst of the hot dry winds we are having. When they get around 8 inches tall I will move them into full sunshine and keep the cups watered at least twice a day until we get a cloudy or rainy day and then will start setting them out. I have put up shade cloth over most of my beds where they will be going and will have plenty of mulch to keep the ground cool. I think you should wait a couple of days until this awful heat wave eases before setting them outside even in the shade. The ones that I set out about a week ago are getting about 2 hours of mid day sun each day and have done fine but I set them out originally during a cloudy spell. If you really want to start right now then I would set them where there is very good shade and watch them closely and keep them well watered and as soon as the heat breaks move them to where they will get some sun each day and gradually move them to direct sun. It takes at least a week of setting out in the direct sun for them to get hardened off enough to set out this time of the year and you could still lose some of them when they go into the garden. Another thing to watch out for once they are outside hardening off this time of the year is spider mites which can devastate seedlings much faster than mature plants. I have sprayed mine already for spider mites and after they are all outside I will do it again. Another thing you can do which will help is once the area you are going to plant into is prepared, is to water it really well about 2 days before you are going to set your plants out and then mulch it heavily to keep the ground cool so there is as little shock as possible when they are set out. Then when you set them out into the moist soil just pull back the mulch and plant them, then pull the mulch back into plance. Don't water them for as long as possible after setting them out so the roots can get established as fast as possible. I have found that watering right after setting them out in the heat increases the incidence of bacterial wilt. Good luck. You will need it when planting this time of the year. I always start at least 4 times as many plants as I think I will need because I lose a good many during the first two weeks of planting out but if you don't have bad fusarium wilt in your soil you shouldn't lose so many.