Is it genetically possible?

lakelady · August 2, 2012

I planted what I thought were Ingegnoli Gigante Liscio and had purchased those seeds from a very reputable supplier. They were growing great, shape and size is exactly what IGL should be. However, they are ripening a white/yellow color, not red. I was very surprised as I expected a red tomato. Is it genetically possible for a tomato to throw off a white /yellow mutation from a red tomato, or is this a case of wrong seed sent? I have not informed the vendor yet.

NGGrant · August 2, 2012

Have you tasted them?

lakelady · August 2, 2012

No, I did not. I was wondering why they were not ripenening when all the others around them were, and got down close to the tomatoes only to realize they were indeed ripening, but getting whiter, not pink or red. So I picked one, and this morning and saw two more. They are on the counter and I'm going to wait another day or two to allow them to ripen more fully then taste one. The odd thing is that I do not even own any white or yellow tomato varieties so I know there is absolutely no chance of me having seeds sown jump into anothe cell or anything like mislabeling. I'll take some pics tonight and post them.

Heritage · August 2, 2012

Antoniette,

It could be a mutation. At any rate, you should ask the vendor - they will want to know of any seed that doesn't grow as expected, and they may know if the yellow mutation has already occurred and been released. Possibly, you have a new child to name.

Steve

lakelady · August 2, 2012

pics below; taste is good, balanced. I'm not that familiar with white tomatoes and I've never tasted IGL so I'm not sure what I'm looking for, lol...

Heritage · August 2, 2012

Is the skin clear? If so, I think it would require 2 mutations to go from red to white (one for skin color, one for fruit color). But I'm not sure... maybe someone with a more complete understanding of tomato genetics will chime in.

Boutique Tomatoes · August 2, 2012

If it's a mutation it's a nice one. I've grown a fair number of white varieties, most are smooth oblate globes; I haven't seen one like that before.

Save some seeds!

**Lee** · August 3, 2012

I'd say it's a mixed up seed. Even reputable suppliers make mistakes,
or pass on mistakes from their sources...

Lee

lakelady · August 3, 2012

Well, I don't know what it is, but it's the 4th surprise in my gardens this year ! What a summer. I don't mind a surprise now and then, but when you have your heart set on such and such, and get something else, well, it's a bit disappointing.

Skin appears to be clear. I tried to look for photos of other whites to see what it might be, but haven't found anything. It is more white than the photo shows than yellow. Nice tomato, the more ripe softer parts were better tasting than the firm parts.

Yes Mark, I will save seeds

. I think I'll try IGL again next year and grow this one next to it and see how similar / dissimilar they might be. It was quite productive here in my garden and would have been more so if I didn't have so much blossom drop this year due to the heat.

Boutique Tomatoes · August 3, 2012

If subsequent generations have that same kind of ribbing it would be nice. Just a few days ago my wife commented as I was slicing some up that if I could find a white or yellow with nice ribbing like the Marmande Verte and Marmande Garnier Rouge it would make a very pretty plate. What you've got there looks like it would fit the bill nicely!

Tania · August 3, 2012

I am the originator of the seed, and all I can say - wow, what a discovery!!!

I harvested the seeds in 2011, and as I had a very miserable year, I have not gotten many other varieties to ripen. Most of my white tomatoes did not mature fruit (I grew Banana Cream, Bychye Serdtse Beloe, David's Ivory Pineapple, Didi's Yellow, Dwarf Mr. Snow, Sosulka Belaya, White Bush, White Heart) - except Didi's Yellow which is very smooth, and Dwarf Mr. Snow, which is PL and dwarf, and also smooth.

As I package seeds right after I harvest and test them, there is a very little chance of mixing up seeds grown in different years.

So this is a very interesting discovery indeed, and I would love to see if this appears to be stable.

I'd rule out F1 cross, as Ingegnoli Gigante Liscio crossed with any other tomato would likely have given a red tomato in F1. Could be a F2+ seed (if my original seed that I got from Baker Creek were not stable / crossed with a white tomato). Could be a mutation, which should be pretty rare. If this is a mutation, I think it is a very lucky one, as I cannot recall any pleated white tomatoes - I have to do a search to see if there are any.

Anyway, I am so looking forward to knowing what would come out of your saved seeds Antoniette!

maf · August 3, 2012

Lakelady, how many plants do you have? Is it just this one is the off-type or are there several?

I would concur with Tania that it cannot be an F1 cross of Ingegnoli Gigante Liscio as that would be a red tomato. What you see in the next generation will give you a lot of information about what type of tomato the original father was.

lakelady · August 3, 2012

Well, I started with two seedlings, and one didn't survive to transplant, so this is the only one of this variety I had. I'll be interested to see what grows out in 2013 from this seed, and I'll be sending some seeds to Tania to grow as well as she has grown this variety before and has more experience with it

Ken4230 · August 4, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakelady

I'll be sending some seeds to Tania to grow as well as she has grown this variety before and has more experience with it

That's a smart move, as it decreases the chance of losing the plant to disease/misfortune in your garden next year. It would be a shame to lose such a beautiful tomato.

Did it have a somewhat sweet taste to it? I love the taste of most of the white/yellow tomatoes.

lakelady · August 5, 2012

Ken, parts of it were sweet. Not having the experience of white tomatoes, I wasn't sure when it was ripe and went by the firmness. The softer parts were sweet, but not really sweet. It was a nice balanced taste. Today I'm slicing up #2 so I'll get another try at the flavor. It's going on a plate with a black and a few reds for dinner!

August 2, 2012	#1
lakelady Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: northern NJ zone 6b Posts: 1,862	Is it genetically possible? I planted what I thought were Ingegnoli Gigante Liscio and had purchased those seeds from a very reputable supplier. They were growing great, shape and size is exactly what IGL should be. However, they are ripening a white/yellow color, not red. I was very surprised as I expected a red tomato. Is it genetically possible for a tomato to throw off a white /yellow mutation from a red tomato, or is this a case of wrong seed sent? I have not informed the vendor yet. __________________ Antoniette

August 2, 2012	#3
lakelady Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: northern NJ zone 6b Posts: 1,862	No, I did not. I was wondering why they were not ripenening when all the others around them were, and got down close to the tomatoes only to realize they were indeed ripening, but getting whiter, not pink or red. So I picked one, and this morning and saw two more. They are on the counter and I'm going to wait another day or two to allow them to ripen more fully then taste one. The odd thing is that I do not even own any white or yellow tomato varieties so I know there is absolutely no chance of me having seeds sown jump into anothe cell or anything like mislabeling. I'll take some pics tonight and post them. __________________ Antoniette

August 2, 2012	#4
Heritage Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,255	Antoniette, It could be a mutation. At any rate, you should ask the vendor - they will want to know of any seed that doesn't grow as expected, and they may know if the yellow mutation has already occurred and been released. Possibly, you have a new child to name. Steve Last edited by Heritage; August 2, 2012 at 04:59 PM.

August 3, 2012	#8
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	I'd say it's a mixed up seed. Even reputable suppliers make mistakes, or pass on mistakes from their sources... Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

August 3, 2012	#9
lakelady Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: northern NJ zone 6b Posts: 1,862	Well, I don't know what it is, but it's the 4th surprise in my gardens this year ! What a summer. I don't mind a surprise now and then, but when you have your heart set on such and such, and get something else, well, it's a bit disappointing. Skin appears to be clear. I tried to look for photos of other whites to see what it might be, but haven't found anything. It is more white than the photo shows than yellow. Nice tomato, the more ripe softer parts were better tasting than the firm parts. Yes Mark, I will save seeds . I think I'll try IGL again next year and grow this one next to it and see how similar / dissimilar they might be. It was quite productive here in my garden and would have been more so if I didn't have so much blossom drop this year due to the heat. __________________ Antoniette

August 2, 2012	#2
NGGrant Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Santa Cruz New Mexico Posts: 81	Have you tasted them? __________________ Nick.

August 2, 2012	#7
Boutique Tomatoes Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, Zone 5a Posts: 1,109	If it's a mutation it's a nice one. I've grown a fair number of white varieties, most are smooth oblate globes; I haven't seen one like that before. Save some seeds!

August 3, 2012	#11
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	I am the originator of the seed, and all I can say - wow, what a discovery!!! I harvested the seeds in 2011, and as I had a very miserable year, I have not gotten many other varieties to ripen. Most of my white tomatoes did not mature fruit (I grew Banana Cream, Bychye Serdtse Beloe, David's Ivory Pineapple, Didi's Yellow, Dwarf Mr. Snow, Sosulka Belaya, White Bush, White Heart) - except Didi's Yellow which is very smooth, and Dwarf Mr. Snow, which is PL and dwarf, and also smooth. As I package seeds right after I harvest and test them, there is a very little chance of mixing up seeds grown in different years. So this is a very interesting discovery indeed, and I would love to see if this appears to be stable. I'd rule out F1 cross, as Ingegnoli Gigante Liscio crossed with any other tomato would likely have given a red tomato in F1. Could be a F2+ seed (if my original seed that I got from Baker Creek were not stable / crossed with a white tomato). Could be a mutation, which should be pretty rare. If this is a mutation, I think it is a very lucky one, as I cannot recall any pleated white tomatoes - I have to do a search to see if there are any. Anyway, I am so looking forward to knowing what would come out of your saved seeds Antoniette! __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

August 3, 2012	#12
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	Lakelady, how many plants do you have? Is it just this one is the off-type or are there several? I would concur with Tania that it cannot be an F1 cross of Ingegnoli Gigante Liscio as that would be a red tomato. What you see in the next generation will give you a lot of information about what type of tomato the original father was.

August 5, 2012	#15
lakelady Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: northern NJ zone 6b Posts: 1,862	Ken, parts of it were sweet. Not having the experience of white tomatoes, I wasn't sure when it was ripe and went by the firmness. The softer parts were sweet, but not really sweet. It was a nice balanced taste. Today I'm slicing up #2 so I'll get another try at the flavor. It's going on a plate with a black and a few reds for dinner! __________________ Antoniette