Severe Leaf Curl...is it over??? :(

[b54red]

Carolyn I raise all of my plants myself from seed and I have never seen anything like this before but the plants are definitely recovering except for about 10 or 15 % of them. The photo in the above post is one of the worst that is still surviving.

This stuff hit my plants overnight after a rain. It was scattered but damaged the seedlings set on a table hardening off the worst but it also hit a bunch of my plants that had been out in the garden. Some of the plants in the garden were over 4 ft tall and had been in the ground since March 16. The ones affected the worst in the ground were the more recent planted ones and particularly in one bed that was away from all the others but nearer to the hardening seedlings.

Every plant that got this curling seemed to get the first symptoms on the same day and they got worse for about a week and then started to recover or die. None of my oldest plants has died but some that had been out for over a month did. I feel it must have been something that came in on the wind or in the rain because all of the symptoms showed up within a couple of hours.

Below are a couple of pictures. The first is a part of a row of plants set out after getting the leaf curl and having the main stem cut. The other two are closeups of the small plants showing good healthy growth from the suckers. In the middle one you can easily see where the stem was cut off.

[duajones]

Sure looks like herbicide damage to me

[mysidx]

As I posted in another leaf curl thread, my plants did the same thing, in ground and in my containers. Horse manure compost was tilled in my bed and dressed on top of my container plants. The ones in containers have less of the curl than the ones in ground. I also had pepper plants in same bed, which they never grew an inch after a month. I have looked at many pictures of plants infected by viruses, bacteria, insects and none of them look like herbicide damage. Your plants look awfuly similar to mine. I am going to start seed in that manure versus potting soil to see if there is any affect. Just my opinion.

Rob

[CarlosMateo72]

OK, I hope it's ok to post my question in here without starting a new thread, but I have the same issue ... sort of. Here's the scenario; I had a bright idea to grow salsa ready container plants in a smallish patio environment and so I bought jalapeno (putting out awesome hotties I can't wait to chew on) red onions and garlic (don't get me started LOL) and decided to forgo the store bought Topsy Turvey container for a homemade version - after all, it shouldn't be too hard, right.

So, I thought it might be a good Idea to seed the top part of my 3 gallon (mistake number one I think - sharing water and feed & root space & only 3 gallons of soil) with the cilantro - all of this grew great for the first 8 weeks, then I noticed the cilantro was growing long and lanky and went to seed and I had not yet seen a flower on my Early Girl. I decided to shop the stinky green weed out of the top (and save the coriander) and add back the 1gallon of soil that was displace in the first experiment and for now, buy cilantro at Wally world. Then, Texas summer days entered the picture.

Now, here we are 3 months later and while my Early Girl was about 8 feet long and taking over the entire patio, the once healthy fruiter began to curl, and curl, and curl.

So all that to ask this: in your expert opinion, should I have used at minimum a 5 gallon bucket (that's white rather than terra cotta as now) and could it be that the suspended 3 gallon container in 106 degree Texas heat in full sun for about 8 hours a day (watering twice a day at this point) has angered the root system and caused the leaf curl that has taken over my poor Early Girl?? I have gotten lots of blooms that so far, have all fallen off (I blame the heat). She still looks healthy except for the curl and even though I cut off 50 percent of her growth, she won't slow down. I forgot to mention, rather than taking the time to mix my own soil (this time), I just used the 3 month feeding Miracle Grow potting soil with water soluble 'tomato food' as required by the plant.

Let me PS this with the fact that I also realize (now, anyway) that indeterminate varieties should actually be called Sequoia 'maters because they do not care what is around, they intend to rule the world LOL (seriously, an 8 ft. tall tomato plant??? who ever heard of such a thing?!). I might be looking at cherries or a determinate heirloom or another avenue in my next grow.

HELP!!!

(sorry, I am a rambler)

[SharonRossy]

Glad I saw your post. Definitely a 3 gallon container is not large enough for an indeterminate variety. Also with that heat, you might have to provide some shade for the plant. If you don't have fruit its most likely due to the extreme heat which will slow down pollination. The miracle Gro soil might be giving you lots of leaves but no flowers. It could be too fertile for tomatoes. You need low nitrogen for tomatoes and not too much fertilizer. I also have some leaf curl on one of my plants which I think is also do to not bringing a large enough pot and this variety is also growing like crazy, but I have lots of fruits. We also have a hot summer here in Montreal, although not as bad as Texas.

[CarlosMateo72]

Sharon, thanks for the insight. It wasn't until the top of the plant was touching the ground with the pot at roof level that I realized I had way to much Early Girl and nowhere near enough soil/pot. I think you are right about the 'N' level too - seems that the Miracle Gro is mostly for seasonal/annual growth and probably way to 'N' hot. I think next time I will try some cherries, a determinate heirloom and another EG to spread out my expectations a little.

So, since the plant won't stop growing and doesn't show any major signs of issues other than the curl (which only seems to affect older growth; newest shoots & leaves always come out looking fine) is it possible that the curl could be from the pot absorbing too much 100 degree heat and is there a prospect of returning to curl-less growth once the fall weather rolls in?

Also, do you think it would be helpful to steep some manure and compost, maybe with some worm castings, in a nice dark tea - to bring up the acid level and add more 'P' & 'K' more safely and effectively?

[SharonRossy]

I would look for an organic tomato fertilizer. You could certainly try the manure and compost tea. The terra cotta planter is definitely absorbing the heat. Try putting a large base under it and add water to that. I have found the leaf curl does not undo itself, but it hasn't harmed the plant. some varieties tend to have leaf curl and it does not indicate the plant is in danger. Another option to help is to mulch - you could add newspaper on top of the soil or straw or another type of mulch. I was also thinking that maybe you could wrap some type of fabric around the pot to keep it from absorbing the heat.

[dice]

MG potting soil usually only has very modest amounts
of fertilizer. It will keep a new seedling going for a couple
of weeks, but that is about it (although this could vary
with quality control, of course).

If your plant seems overfertilized, it is probably
from the tomato food. You could give it compost tea
only, but I would skip the manure and worm castings.
Those will add more nitrogen, and it seems to have
more than enough already.

[CarlosMateo72]

Thanks, guys - all are great ideas. Time to try them out I am toying with the idea of transplanting into a white (thinking white would reflect rather than absorb heat/light) 5 gal bucket that I would cut in half and reassemble with 3 jewelry box hinges and 3 bolt clasps - filling up with a better mix of soil and hoping to provide some absent nutrients (slow release). Not sure I have the guts, but it would we valuable research for future grows ... especially if it works LOL. Fortunately I would have help from my 15 yr old son so as long as it's fairly root bound, it should just take a little finesse. Anyone ever tried transplanting a homemade topsy turvey?!

[SharonRossy]

Hi CM, I meant to answer you yesterday. Did you transplant? It doesn't usually work well. Tomatoes don't like to be disturbed, but hey go for it! Let us know!
Sharon

[CarlosMateo72]

Naa, I think I convinced myself not to do it this time since I only grew the one tomato. Clearly I need to spread out a bit next time with several. I will probably only attempt it if she begins to look like there is no hope. For now I think I'll just (impatiently ) wait until cooler temps set in and just keep nursing her along till then, praying for recovery and flowers that swell instead of dropping LOL.

[SharonRossy]

Hi CarlosM,

by the way, cherry tomatoes can get to be 8 ft. high, trust me! good luck. The weather is starting to change here,hopefully not too long. Mind you it's sticky like hell! But we are supposed to get a lot of rain, finally, and I'm worried my tomatoes are all going to crack!

Definitely, next year, go for the biggest containers you can. Tomatoes have big roots.
keep me posted,
Sharon

[CarlosMateo72]

Sharon, thanks for the heads up on the cherries - I think I might just forgo the Topsy Turvey method for traditional next grow - maybe a 4 x 4 x 4 grow box with 3 rows of lattice for support - still have plenty of time to dream, though. I'm about 2 weeks out from the massive 50% cut back and the EG is looking really good and has recovered nicely, so I'm going to ascribe the curl to environmental factors (and to coin a phrase "oven roots" - I don't know what I was thinking LOL) rather than disease ... giving me some hope for a latter season crop however small it may be.

[CarlosMateo72]

Well, as you can see by the updated picture, gardener induced leaf curl can be reversed – my early girl has bounced back completely since Texas has had a cool spell with lots of rain (2 weeks!).

[desertlzbn]

I am having the same leaf curl/stunted growth problem, but unfortunately I think mine is the leaf curl virus that the beet hoppers spread, my neighbor has it too.
Don't know what to do about it.
pulled all plants as they were all showing symptoms, and unfortunately, did not get hardly any tomatoes at all this year. but I am going to keep on trying.