Mid Atlantic Weather Heirlooms

[Pants]

Like most tomato gardeners I'm convinced my location is one of the most difficult to grow in. We have the 100+°F weather, very high humidity of the south, but also have the shorter growing season and real winters of the north.

As you might guess I've found success with some heirlooms that originated in this general area (MD, VA, WV, KY, NC).

HillBilly (aka flame), a WV heirloom, for example seems to do well (though it peters out at the first sign of cooler weather).

I was curious what other heirlooms people know of or have experience with growing that might be from this area or that seem to do well with our weather.

[Lowlander]

I'm on the eastern shore and will be planting heirlooms this year (start in Jan under T5 lights). We have had enormous success over here, (even higher humididty) with some hybrids if you need to supplement just to be safe.

Early Girls work extremely well for slicers.
Big Mommas were tremendous for paste tomatos (80qts canned)

as far as hybrids,.sorry I can't help until next year after I have run some over here. I plan on running some 8-10 varieties this year.

[Pants]

I'm not too interested in hybrids right now since I am just getting into saving and trading seeds. I'm in a town house and grow everything in earthtainers, so space is also an issue.

This year Santa Ana, Hill Billy and Al Kuffa seemed to do best for me. KBX and Cherokee Purple were tasty but were sickly plants that didn't produce much for me. Black Cherry and Ghost Cherry did well for me in the past. I'd never given much thought to origin but as HillBilly did so well it got me thinking that maybe instead of trying all these California and Italian varieties maybe it would be good to look for tomatoes from more close to home. I've also started to keep an eye on what varieties local farmers are growing, but a lot of them just label everything "heirloom tomato" so it can be hard to figure out what people are growing.

There is one grower at our local farmer's market who always has tons of different (and nicely labeled) tomatoes but they are so frowny I've been too shy to ask them their thoughts.

[Lowlander]

are the cherokee purples always thin/stalky plants or was it something about the season?? this year was strange for all of our tomatos and I heard the same from many other people.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Lowlander

are the cherokee purples always thin/stalky plants or was it something about the season?? this year was strange for all of our tomatos and I heard the same from many other people.

No, in my experience Cherokee Purple is not a thin stalky plant and I've been growing it since Craig LeHoullier first got it and named it and sent me seeds and that was somewhere around 1992, or so. So I do thinl it was the specific season

Hilbilly is just Hillbilly, not Hillbilly ( flame) and I could explain if you want me to. There's also a PL( potato leaf) Hillbilly if that interests you.

In MD you can grow well, depending on the season for sure, any darn variety you want to. Varieties are not really area specific/adapted, despite the place of origin.

The nurseries in S Cal, Fl and others in the deep south have plants available for Fall planting and a good number of them are Siberian or Russian varieties b'c they are early varieties so folks can have fruits by Xmas.
So go at it and grow any variety you want to.

[Pants]

One trouble I have in picking varieties is that I have 4 earthtainers and like to plant something different in each. So if a variety does poorly, my sample size is so small its hard to know if it had anything to do with the variety itself. I'll definitely be giving Cherokee Purple and KBX another shot at some point because of this.

I am actually curious about the Hillbilly vs Flame if you know the story behind why some places label it flame. I've also seen some claim it is from Ohio instead of West Virginia and have wondered about that.

I'm going to have to disagree on the statement that varieties are not adapted to specific places. When each variety was selected the person doing the selecting would naturally pick those plants that grew well and thus they will be adapted for the weather and pests experienced during the selection process. Those Siberian and Russian varieties you mention aren't randomly able to set fruit in the cold, the people who selected for those varieties were growing the plants in the cold of Russia and selected the plants that grew and produced well in that environment. There are certainly differences in various OP varieties in regards to how they tolerate things like heat, cold, humidity, and disease resistance.

Now I don't need to grow Mid Atlantic varieties because I am in the mid atlantic. And I can and have grown varieties that originated all over the world. But a variety that originated here will likely have been selected to tolerate the kind of weather I experience here. On the same note though there are other areas of the world that might have similar weather that could give rise to varieties that would do well here. I'm not saying I can't grow other varieties, only that it might be useful when exploring new varieties to look for ones that originated locally.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Pants

One trouble I have in picking varieties is that I have 4 earthtainers and like to plant something different in each. So if a variety does poorly, my sample size is so small its hard to know if it had anything to do with the variety itself. I'll definitely be giving Cherokee Purple and KBX another shot at some point because of this.

I am actually curious about the Hillbilly vs Flame if you know the story behind why some places label it flame. I've also seen some claim it is from Ohio instead of West Virginia and have wondered about that.

I'm going to have to disagree on the statement that varieties are not adapted to specific places. When each variety was selected the person doing the selecting would naturally pick those plants that grew well and thus they will be adapted for the weather and pests experienced during the selection process. Those Siberian and Russian varieties you mention aren't randomly able to set fruit in the cold, the people who selected for those varieties were growing the plants in the cold of Russia and selected the plants that grew and produced well in that environment. There are certainly differences in various OP varieties in regards to how they tolerate things like heat, cold, humidity, and disease resistance.

Now I don't need to grow Mid Atlantic varieties because I am in the mid atlantic. And I can and have grown varieties that originated all over the world. But a variety that originated here will likely have been selected to tolerate the kind of weather I experience here. On the same note though there are other areas of the world that might have similar weather that could give rise to varieties that would do well here. I'm not saying I can't grow other varieties, only that it might be useful when exploring new varieties to look for ones that originated locally.

About Hillbilly and the explanation of where the word flame came from as connected with Hillbilly;

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...=olympic+flame

What we knew as the former USSR is now known as the CIS ( commonwealth of independent states), so Russia is now known as an independent state and what we once knew as the USSR has states that have gardening zones that range for almost 8 to 9 along the Black Sea to zones like yours and mine. I have a love of almost all varieties from the Ukraine and Moldova and Bulgaria, all now independent states.

What was grown in Siberia were not mostly cold tolerant varieties since the Siberian summers are really quite hot and when Bill McDorman first went to Siberia after the gates were open he brought back some wonderful OP heirlooms as well as many that were bred at the Experimental Station there.

Large fruited varieties such as Mother Russia, Gregori's Altai, Grandpa's Cocks Plume and many more. Craig LeHoullier ( nctomatoman) and I ordered every single one of those he offered at his website, split the # of the seeds in each pack and had a fine time growing all of them. Most large fruited and most mid-late midseason varieties with a few exceptions.

So let's just agree to disagree on the issue of local adaptation to specific climates b/c it's very hard to prove. The same issue is present with Canada and the many varieties from there that were the result of deliberate breeding, such as Kimberly, ones bred at the several Experimental stations there as well as some heirloom varieties.

Hope that helps.

[Lowlander]

soooo, these russian/siberian varieties,.....when would we plant them here in the mid-atlantic and how long into the fall will they produce? at what temp (cold) are they all done for??

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Lowlander

soooo, these russian/siberian varieties,.....when would we plant them here in the mid-atlantic and how long into the fall will they produce? at what temp (cold) are they all done for??

It all depends on which specific varieties one is talking about. If talking about the early season varieties, many of which are determinate, then those are usually planted when your other ones are set out in late Spring. And those in the much warmer climates often plant those early varieties for a Fall crop as well.

But if you're talking about the large fruited varieties from Siberia and the many states in the CIS then they're grown at the same time that other indeterminates are grown.

The one variety I know of that can take some cold is Siberian, not the variety Siberia, and there have been reports that Siberian can take it down to maybe 30 F which has not been confirmed by all who have reported on it.

But for all the others, the tomato tissue is the same so perhaps slight damage with just a touch of frost but plant death with a hard/killing frost.

There were those years when I didn't get all the weeds out of my tomato field which was a real positive when the first frosts came along b'c the weeds got hit first, sparing the tomato plants.

There are are some great lists at both Tania and Jeff Casey's websites that are entirely devoted to just Early varieties. So you might want to take a look.

A bit off topic. In the mail this AM i got a travel brochure from the place I graduated from for a cruise to the Black Sea. There was Yalta, part of Ukraine, sitting out in the Black Sea, with palm trees lining the boulevards along the sea. There was Odessa, also in the Ukraine, both in what's Called the Crimean Peninsula, yes, the origin of Black Krim, and Bulgaria and the northern parts of Turkey and Georgia, all on the Black Sea, where it's warm with Palms and other warm weather flora and fauna.

Oh how I'd love to be going on that cruise and prowling the local farmer's markets for some lovely family heirloom tomatoes.