Help with ID. Jaune Flamme?

[WhippoorwillG]

I had a vigorous plant grow out of the greenhouse floor. I am trying to identify it, and think the only possible variety is Jaune Flamme. Has anyone else had fused blossoms, as none of my field grown plants exhibited this? One branch of the plant is almost solely oblate fruit.
Also, it is sweeter than field grown J F, but I have no other similar variety.



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[WhippoorwillG]

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[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by WhippoorwillG

I had a vigorous plant grow out of the greenhouse floor. I am trying to identify it, and think the only possible variety is Jaune Flamme. Has anyone else had fused blossoms, as none of my field grown plants exhibited this? One branch of the plant is almost solely oblate fruit.
Also, it is sweeter than field grown J F, but I have no other similar variety.



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So I'm assuming you grew it in the greenhouse before and some fruits dropped to the greenhouse floor and what you got was a volunteer plant/

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Jaune_Flamm%C3%A9e

Above is a link to Tania's page for it and you can see that it should be a round orange, and a variety I like very much.

I received seeds for it in 1992 in a huge trade with Norbert in France and have grown it many times and have never seen a fused blossom. That fruit on the left, the large one, doesn't look like it came from a fused blossom, at least to me.

And if that's the oblate one you're referring to where you found one branch with mostly fruits of that size and shape, I understand. And I'd suggest that what you might be seeing is what's called a somatic mutation but when that occurs, a DNA mutation in a plant cell, not in a seed, then ALL of the fruits on that one branch should be identical, not just most of them as you said.

I think it's very difficult to compare greenhouse grown with outside grown plants of any variety, and in order to make that direct comparison the two locations with the same variety should be grown in the same season.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn

[WhippoorwillG]

Hello Carolyn and thank you for your response. The last time I grew it was three years ago, and all 20 or so plants had numerous perfectly round fruits.

This plant is different in that I have seen one branch with almost all oblate/off shaped fruit, but the rest of the plant expresses it also. They are most often in clusters of three, where one of the three are not round. Another odd feature that makes me think it is something different is some of the fruit have a slight red blush spot on some of them, unlike my other experience with Jaune Flamme.

I agree that growing inside and in the field are very difficult to compare. While not impossible, I thought it odd that this tomato would pick now to germinate and grow. But, like I said, I have grown no other tomato that is even remotely close to looking like this.

Either way, thank you for your reply. I will grow out some of the seed next year and see what comes out.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by WhippoorwillG

Hello Carolyn and thank you for your response. The last time I grew it was three years ago, and all 20 or so plants had numerous perfectly round fruits.

This plant is different in that I have seen one branch with almost all oblate/off shaped fruit, but the rest of the plant expresses it also. They are most often in clusters of three, where one of the three are not round. Another odd feature that makes me think it is something different is some of the fruit have a slight red blush spot on some of them, unlike my other experience with Jaune Flamme.

I agree that growing inside and in the field are very difficult to compare. While not impossible, I thought it odd that this tomato would pick now to germinate and grow. But, like I said, I have grown no other tomato that is even remotely close to looking like this.

Either way, thank you for your reply. I will grow out some of the seed next year and see what comes out.

With just one plant to observe and seeing a red blush on them, and where is that blush, at the blossom end or over the whole fruit, and with different shaped fruits, there's also the possibility that the seed that gave you that plant was cross pollinated.

Is that a possibility for your greenhouse grown plants?

Can you take fruits off that plant that are either round or beefsteak shaped and save the seed separately? That might be interesting to do.

Carolyn

[WhippoorwillG]

The blush is very light and in random places ( not the blossom end) on only a few fruits.

I will definitely separate and save the different shapes. Here are a few more pics just for reference.....


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The smaller, round fruit look very much like the Jaune Flammes I've grown for the last two years. They do become more orange in color as they ripen. For some reason, the flavor of the Jaune Flammes was not appealing to me. Mine seemed to have an almost astringent flavor.

I love your user ID. We bought some land a few years ago and a couple of years ago, I had the wonderful opportunity to visit with the youngest of the four daughters who were born on and grew up on the land. She was almost one hundred years old when I visited with her. I asked her some questions about her memories of the portion of land we now own. She said "The old timers always called your property "Whipporwill Hill" because it had the huge oak trees which the Whipporwills favored."

We still get twice yearly visits by the Whipporwills who sing for us morning and evening.

Ted

[chancethegardener]

Carolyn, you mentioned that you had a huge trade with Norbert from France in 1992. I am just asking out of curiosity: how many varieties did you receive in that trade and which varieties from that trade are widely known and grown like Jaune Flaumme, today?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by chancethegardener

Carolyn, you mentioned that you had a huge trade with Norbert from France in 1992. I am just asking out of curiosity: how many varieties did you receive in that trade and which varieties from that trade are widely known and grown like Jaune Flaumme, today?

Actually Norbert appeared here at Tville quite recently but is limited with English, and posted mainly in French and some of our French speaking/ writing folks here translated but it was clearly frustrating for Norbert and he left.

There were several folks in on this huge trade. The ones I remember are Bill Minkey, Craig LeHoullier, Joe Bratka and myself. I can't remember who was contacted first, but Norbert had a huge list and wanted to trade so we made sure between us that there were no duplications asked of him and that we sent no duplications either. And I remember that he sent the seeds taped to graph paper and I remember that Joe Bratka sent his to me.

And we SSE listed every single one that each of us received so as to make them available initially to SSE members and from there they went out to various seed sites.

Unless I go thorugh Tania's pages, which I'm not going to do, or go through my old yearbooks which I don't want to do, there's no way that I can ever come up with a list. And yes, most were new to everyone in the US and many became staples in various gardens.

Let me give it some thought and see if I can tickle the Norbert trade brain cells I might have left.

Carolyn