Variety Question

[tlcmd]

As many of you know, my garden area is endemic for TSWV which limits the variety of tomatoes which I can successfully grow to those with resistance to this disease. However, the virus carrying thrips generally travel only a short distance (30 -40 ft) during their life cycle. So I'm going to attempt to grow some half dozen heirloom tomatoes in pots somewhat remote from my regular garden.

My understanding also is that Brandywine tomatoes are among the best tasting and most prolific indeterminate varieties, so plan to try that variety.

My question: Is there a significant difference betweenf Sudduth's Brandywine (potato leaf) and "plain" (generic) Brandywine tomatoes??

Due to space limitations, this year I'm only going to grow about 6 plants of one heirloom (non-resistant) variety. Planning to order the seeds today, (26 Jan).

My Snow Berry and Bolseno F1 plants are already 6" tall in their flats. Bolseno is TSWV resistant and has always done well. interestingly, my Snow Berry tomatoes seem immune to TSWV in spite of not being listed as such and have, in the past, thrived next to tomato plants infected with TSWV as do my Bolseno F1plants.

BTW, I am planning to plant Wormwood (Artemesia Absinthium) next to my Brandywines as it is an excellent companion plant for repelling beasties, including thrips and other 2, 4, 6, 8, legged pests as well as snakes. "Ralph," my garden's black rat snake is also quite territorial with regard to other snakes.

Thanks for any input.

tcmd (aka Dick)
Greensboro, N.C. Zone 7b

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tlcmd

As many of you know, my garden area is endemic for TSWV which limits the variety of tomatoes which I can successfully grow to those with resistance to this disease. However, the virus carrying thrips generally travel only a short distance (30 -40 ft) during their life cycle. So I'm going to attempt to grow some half dozen heirloom tomatoes in pots somewhat remote from my regular garden.

My understanding also is that Brandywine tomatoes are among the best tasting and most prolific indeterminate varieties, so plan to try that variety.

My question: Is there a significant difference betweenf Sudduth's Brandywine (potato leaf) and "plain" (generic) Brandywine tomatoes??

Due to space limitations, this year I'm only going to grow about 6 plants of one heirloom (non-resistant) variety. Planning to order the seeds today, (26 Jan).

My Snow Berry and Bolseno F1 plants are already 6" tall in their flats. Bolseno is TSWV resistant and has always done well. interestingly, my Snow Berry tomatoes seem immune to TSWV in spite of not being listed as such and have, in the past, thrived next to tomato plants infected with TSWV as do my Bolseno F1plants.

BTW, I am planning to plant Wormwood (Artemesia Absinthium) next to my Brandywines as it is an excellent companion plant for repelling beasties, including thrips and other 2, 4, 6, 8, legged pests as well as snakes. "Ralph," my garden's black rat snake is also quite territorial with regard to other snakes.

Thanks for any input.

tcmd (aka Dick)
Greensboro, N.C. Zone 7b

Dick, I'm one who does not think that Brandywine has some of the best tastes, maybe a unique taste, but not the best taste. I'm not sure what you mean when you speak of Brandywine Sudduth and then a generic Brandywine.

Brandywine is a large pink beefsteak and has PL foliage so if by generic you mean the red or yellow ones, etc., that's a different story.

There are many folks who post here from NC, and last I knew there was a thread about TSWV in the disease forum written by someone from NC, I think, and you might want to take a look at that. All to say that there really is no such think as total resistence, rather, tolerance, and that some years there's no problem and some years yes, a real problem.

My brother grows tomatoes in NC, as do Craig ( nctomatoman) who is the N Hemisphere Coordinator for the Dwarf Project, as does Lee who does some seed production for me and is co host of Tomatopalooza as does Shoe, who does the most seed production for my annual seed offers, so I have a pretty good idea of how TSWV affects their tomatoes and by extension the seeds they produce for my seed offers.

I'm sure others will answer you as well, but above is my take on your post.

Carolyn

[tlcmd]

Carolyn,
Thanks for the reply. My question re: Brandywine was related to the potato leaf or Sudduth Brandywine being listed separately from the "Brandywine" varieties in some seed catalogs.

Since you are one who does not think of Brandywine as among the best tasting, could I get your recommendations, please? Others of the "best tasting" varieties I have seen listed are Hillbilly and Arkansas Traveler. I'd appreciate your input aas to your list of "best tasting" tomatoes (hopefully appropriate for Zone 7b). The seeds aren't ordered yet!!!

[Sun City Linda]

A lot of folks think Brandywine is great tasting but few ever comment that it is very productive. Actually most seem to think it is rather stingy, but I, like Carolyn don't grow it. Red Brandywine (round globe, regular leaves) is quite productive.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Sun City Linda

A lot of folks think Brandywine is great tasting but few ever comment that it is very productive. Actually most seem to think it is rather stingy, but I, like Carolyn don't grow it. Red Brandywine (round globe, regular leaves) is quite productive.

First, I don't quite agree with Linda's comment above about yield being less for BW. I don't think I'd even say most think that. It depends on where it's grown, almost everyone here in the NE gets good production, but seasons are different and that impacts yield as well. Dick, you'll just have to find out for yourself.

I did grow it but since I no longer can grow anything I want to and concentrate on just varieties that will be new to all or most, I don't grow it.

Dick, If you were to have access to the SSE Yearbooks as an SSE member you'd see that the largest number of listings were under the heading Brandywine, and then you'd see various so called strains of BW, and there's a thread here about what a strain is, ones like the Sudduth/Quisenberry, Pawers, and on and on.

Within the listing of just Brandywine there are no doubt Sudduth ones as well, b'c for the longest time many folks had no idea what BW they were growing.

So at some seed sites you will see the Sudduth listed separately and you have to blame for that Craig LeHoullier ( nctomatoman) and secondarily I suppose me. And that's b'c I was the official Prez of the anti-BW association for quite a while and had grown many so called strains, but when Craig sent me the suddth one I was a convert.

Craig has spread the seeds around and so have I.

So many feel that the Sudduth one is the best now, and have for quite a while as seeds for it have been listed at many vendors, and that's why they list it separately.

I said that for me BW had a unique taste, not that I didn't like it. Prue is another one I can ID by taste alone.

Best tasting ones for me? That's asked a lot and it changes every year as newer ones come along. I've now grown over about 3,200 varieties and I still find surprise taste ones. So I have no list, I've been asked many times to list my top 1, impossible, top 10, top whatever, and just don't want to to that for several reasons.

The two you list, Arkansas Traveler and Hillbilly wouldn't be on any list of mine. The gold/red bicolors are so darn iffy, sweet and lucious in one season and bland and mealy with the same variety the next year. Sure, I like a few of them, but there are others I like much better, not bicolors.

Just also noting that the real name for Arkansas Traveler is Traveler, as bred and released by the U of Arkansas, and someone just plopped the Arakansas name on it. So not an heirloom as so many seem to think.

OK, time for me to get to the back room and continue packing up seeds for my seed offer.

Carolyn

[bower]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

My brother grows tomatoes in NC, as do Craig ( nctomatoman) who is the N Hemisphere Coordinator for the Dwarf Project, as does Lee who does some seed production for me and is co host of Tomatopalooza as does Shoe, who does the most seed production for my annual seed offers, so I have a pretty good idea of how TSWV affects their tomatoes and by extension the seeds they produce for my seed offers.

Carolyn

Carolyn, do TSWV infected plants produce fruit and seeds? Or is there a protocol not to save seed from infected plants. I've read that it can be transmitted in seed, although a small percentage.

Reason I ask is because we do have thrips up here, but so far no TSWV for them to add to their damages..

[livinonfaith]

I am trying the Cowlicks Brandywine this year, as I have heard many people say that it is more productive than either Sudduth's or plain Brandywine. However, this is my first try with any Brandywine, so I don't know how it will do.

Most of what I have read about the Brandywine family leads me to believe than you should always have another variety planted for your main production. Fantastic tasting, but stingy in production, seems to be heard often.

One of the ones I've heard some NC folks talking about is Cuostralee. It's a big beefsteak type, too. The only problem is that, as with any tomato, you can have good years and bad years. I would always have at least three different varieties in my garden for that reason.

[MarinaRussian]

I've grown both BW Cowlick's and Sudduth's last summer. Actually, they were pretty productive, compared to some other varieties. I loved their taste!!! If you have the space, grow it and see for yourself whether you like it or not.

Forgot to mention, they ripened quite early, too.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by bower

Carolyn, do TSWV infected plants produce fruit and seeds? Or is there a protocol not to save seed from infected plants. I've read that it can be transmitted in seed, although a small percentage.

Reason I ask is because we do have thrips up here, but so far no TSWV for them to add to their damages..

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=1519

I think both Dick and you ( for thrip info) would learn a lot about TSWV from reading the above thread, started by Lee in NC and lots of input.

There are many species of thrips, but only certain ones can serve as a vector for TSWV.

Carolyn

[Fusion_power]

Grow the Sudduth strain if you want, but for your area, you will need a container that holds at least 10 gallons of soil. The problem I see so often with containers here in the SouthEast is that they are too small to hold enough water for a plant to make it through a full day in the sun.

TSWV is spread by the western flower thrip which became established in Eastern U.S. about 15 years ago. Several hundred species of plants can harbor the disease. Thrips feed on the infected plants then move to tomato plants in the garden. It is hit or miss which plants an infected thrip feeds on. Without going into all the details, only the Sw-5 gene has been effective for control. There is some evidence that individual tomato plants are repulsive or attractive to thrips. The Sw-7 gene seems to work by making individual plants repel thrips.

Don't expect that growing in containers will prevent TSWV. Thrips are everywhere and they will move to tomatoes in early spring as tomatoes are a readily available food source.

DarJones

[tlcmd]

Thank y'all. I spent some time several years ago studying TSWV, vectors, preventative measures, etc and did post them here. NOTHING WORKED for me from companion plants to reflective mulch. My only solution was to use the TSWV tolerant varieties of which Bolseno F1 from Johnny's seeds seemed the most tolerant of those I tried. And as I mentioned above, my Snow Berry plants seem resistant as they bear copiously (as do my Bolseno's) until the first frost (usually early November here). Most of my plants which have become infected remained visually free of TSWV and bore well until toward the end of August and were gone by mid-September. Interestingly, I do have some neighbours within some 300 yards who have not had problems with TSWV. Hence my attempt this year to try a different variety like BW somewhat remote from my garden, but I will continue to rely on my Bolseno F1 and Snow Berry plants as the mainstay for the family tomato supply.
Again, thanks for the responses, opinions, and information. Frankly, I'm interested to see if adjacent Artemesia Absinthium will protect them from those *&^%^&* thrips!!! I do know that when sitting on my deck next to my Absinthium wormwood, mosquitoes, flies, gnats, etc don't bother me, but if I move 10 - 15 feet away, they come after me. Absinthium wormwood adjacent to parsley definitely protects against parsley worms. And intrestingly, Artemesia Powis Castle (a hybrid wormwood) attracts ladybugs, the T. Rex for garden pests, so one corner of my garden does have a 4x4x4' Powis Castle.

[JohnWayne]

After tasting Kellogg's Breakfast last year, I can't imagine ever having a garden without them. But my list of the tomatoes that I have tried will be much shorter than many here and I am sure there are others just as well liked.

I like a strong tomato flavor and KB suits my tastes and yet I have never read where anyone said they were to strong.

Brandywine on the other hand has always been lacking in flavor for me.

Good luck, whatever route you go.