Factors affecting texture and taste

[Patrina_Pepperina]

Hi folks

I don't often post in general dicussion or other areas beside the Dwarf Project, but thought this post applies more widely than my area in the project. This season provided me with a situation that I’ve never had before. I was able to see the effects of overwatering and underwatering on a stable variety where there would be no difference genetically in individual plants, only difference in growing conditions.

The main example is from an F8 generation of Sweet Adelaide, one of the varieties of the Dwarf Tomato Project. I decided to grow from seed of the F7 generation that I saved from a large pink tomato grown at my daughters place, even tho I only scored it 5.5/10. It was a bit floury/mealy, watery and not at all sweet. So why grow the next generation of it? I was thinking that at F7 level the genetic material should have been extremely close to 100% stable, and that having been selected to this stage it must have had potential, so it deserved a second chance.

One F8 plant was grown by me and one at my local community garden this season downunder. The early samples I got from the community garden were large, overwatered, mealy and bland, and after a 40 C / 108 F day when I picked them they seemed fine, but taste testing a day later they were softish and watery when cut, so I figured it was due to the heat. But then I checked last years results and noticed how poorly it scored at my daughter's house and why, so I wrote in my notes that I would give this one the flick!

However, about a week or so later, still with the temps hovering in the high 30s C (say over 95F) when I picked the first tomatoes off my own plant from the same vial, I almost didn’t bother to taste test thinking I would just throw them into the sauce I was making. On the spur of the moment I gave the cut slice a lick, and I was SO surprised – it was VERY tasty, so I ate some and found it was not at all mealy, but really tasty with a good balance between tangy and sweet, and I scored it 8/10. How could there be such a huge difference in texture and taste I thought?

An interesting thing that helped me sort it out was that one of my garden beds was so severely affected by tree root invasion that the plants didn’t make it over 12 to 15 inches tall, and were spindly all season, some with 1 fruit, some with 2 and some with zero fruits, and even tho I gave extra water to try to get some size to those few measly fruits I didn’t succeed. The plants always looked like that were starving, so I didn’t hold much hope for the very small fruits, and of the few that made it several were affected by BER. Nevertheless I did get a few samples.

What shocked me the most was that these tomatoes were not insipid like I expected, they had such strong flavours that it was almost too much. Anyone who has never noticed the saltiness of black tomatoes would definitely have noticed it in the samples I tasted – it was as if someone had sprinkled salt on my slices while I wasn’t looking! It wasn’t just the black tomatoes, it was the tomatoes of around 12 different varieties, all with intense flavours!

So, it all goes to show that to really get the flavour out of your tomatoes, reducing the amount of water they get should make a difference. Yes, the fruit will be smaller maybe, but it’s so worth it to get the flavour IMHO. If the fruits split they are getting way too much water! I’m always fussy about not giving too much water, mostly because it can cost a fortune to use water in South Australia. We have very high rates because they are trying to pay for the de-salinisation plant they have recently built here. I do water deeply in the early stages while the plants are growing so that it encourages deeper roots, which helps tremendously during heat waves, but as the fruit start to grow I gradually water less deeply, but twice weekly instead of once per week. And then once the fruit begin to change colour I water less again.

My theory about overwatered tomatoes during the heat is that individual cells are already stretched to the limit and then the heat forces tiny ruptures in cell walls as the fluid expands in the heat, making the flesh soft/mushy and watery when cut... just my theory, don’t know if it’s actually what happens. It doesn’t explain why some early tomatoes can be mealy while later ones on the same bush will be smooth... dunno. But if lack of water makes strong flavours and small tomatoes, and too much water makes bland flavour and larger tomatoes that split, then controlling how much water the plants get should give you the tomato flavours you're looking for

I know that some of you grow in areas which get a lot of rainfall, so that makes it pretty difficult to control how much your plants get unfortunately. Raised beds might help, or roll out the covers like they do on cricket pitches (for those of you who know about that odd game).

Anyhow, my season is over now, just a few more seeds to process. I hope you all have a great season up over!

Patrina

[livinonfaith]

This is so true! The tomatoes I picked during the end of our wet Spring were all bland, especially if picked when ripe or after they had cracked.

About mealiness, just wanted to mention that most of the tomatoes I've had that were mealy were picked ripe or close to it. Now I pick all of my heirlooms when they still have greenish shoulders and let them ripen inside. That way, they don't get mealy, they don't crack, and they taste better, too.

Possibly because they don't get water in that final stage of ripening?

[Fusion_power]

Overwatered tomatoes turning soft and mushy is actually caused by production of ethylene. It is triggered by seed maturity. When you stress a tomato plant, it reduces the ability of the plant to mature the seed. This reduces the production of ethylene in the ripening fruit which keeps it firm instead of mushy. There is a lot of variation in this trait with some varieties naturally producing less ethylene than others.

One key I use is to check overall flavor and texture and aroma. A tomato that retains all three under high moisture conditions gets selected for further breeding work because it is naturally slower at ripening. Another clue is the number of seed. You will find that really good flavored tomatoes have about 100 mature seed per fruit. Less seed and the fruit will taste bland. More than about 200 seed in a single fruit and you will find it to be very juicy and can have unusual flavors and smells. There is a happy medium where enough seed are formed to induce even ripening. There are obvious variations depending on size of fruit. Cherry tomatoes don't need as many while jumbo size 3+ pounders need 150 or more to have decent flavor.

DarJones

[Dak]

Pulled.

[zeroma]

Thanks so much DarJones! I love to know the 'why' stuff. And the seed count business is very exciting to me. I'll keep this in mind as I start my new best past time, being addicted to tomato knowledge!

[tomatoguy]

I agree 100%. We have hot to very hot summers (last year broke all records with 112 F) and it is often dry in late July and August. I have a soaker hose buried 20" beneath my raised bed garden. I water as little as possible; only when I see signs of stress on the plants. I, too, can tell a big difference in the taste when we have a rainy period. Same goes for the cantaloupes I grow. The best ones are smallish but have a very powerful taste.

mater

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Overwatered tomatoes turning soft and mushy is actually caused by production of ethylene. It is triggered by seed maturity. When you stress a tomato plant, it reduces the ability of the plant to mature the seed. This reduces the production of ethylene in the ripening fruit which keeps it firm instead of mushy. There is a lot of variation in this trait with some varieties naturally producing less ethylene than others.

One key I use is to check overall flavor and texture and aroma. A tomato that retains all three under high moisture conditions gets selected for further breeding work because it is naturally slower at ripening. Another clue is the number of seed. You will find that really good flavored tomatoes have about 100 mature seed per fruit. Less seed and the fruit will taste bland. More than about 200 seed in a single fruit and you will find it to be very juicy and can have unusual flavors and smells. There is a happy medium where enough seed are formed to induce even ripening. There are obvious variations depending on size of fruit. Cherry tomatoes don't need as many while jumbo size 3+ pounders need 150 or more to have decent flavor.

DarJones

Wow Darren,
That is maybe one of the most interesting and helpful posts I have seen. Your knowledge is humbling, but very appreciated. Thank you.
Marsha

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Wow Darren,
That is maybe one of the most interesting and helpful posts I have seen. Your knowledge is humbling, but very appreciated. Thank you.
Marsha

I have been noticing the same thing about Dar's posts.