Should the plants go outdoors now?

May 10, 2013

Hello Tomatoheads -
I started seeds indoors in late March and grew them with care under grow lights with good air circulation - no damping off - YAY!! We've had an inspiring and unusual stretch of warm weather the past couple of weeks, in which I gradually hardened them off; they've spent the past few days out on the deck 24/7, and they are looking good to this proud Mater Ma.

Now that the weekend is upon us and I'm ready to put them out in the real dirt...we are heading back to a stretch of typical springlike Pacific Northwest weather. Daytime temps mid to low 60s or high 50s, with some nightime temps down into the 40s

Their garden spot gets full sun, is on the SW side of my house with lots of reflection from the building, and I've had black plastic over the soil for about 10 days, should be nice and warm down below if not in the air.

The varieties I have are Stupice, Siletz and Grandma's Pick. Two of them are supposedly bred for cooler temps. Am I stupid to put them out this weekend, should I just haul them back inside and keep under lights until the weather warms up again? If I bring them indoors again, do they have to be re-hardened later?

Thinking I already know the answer to this question, thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and any tips you may have for us!
rt

Redbaron · May 10, 2013

My advise is ignore any advise I give you about when setting plants out this year. Every time I went ahead and planted the temp was lower than expected and frosted them, and when I finally didn't , it was warmer than expected and didn't frost. Weathers been crazy this year.

May 10, 2013

LOL This sounds like a typical PNW spring! Methinks Murphy's Laws somehow pertain to gardening.
Thanks, Scott.

BennB · May 11, 2013

Ronaye,

There is always the risk of a 40 degree night up through July 5, but they need to go in some time before then or you won't get any fruit. This past few weeks has been great and soil temperatures have warmed up nicely. Your spot seems great on top of that. My guess is they will be fine as long as we don't have another June like last year with long stretches of 50's for highs and a ton of rain.

So I'd say go for it.

I'm in Seattle and will be putting some plants in the ground this weekend at my mother's house on Mother's day (a tradition). The rest I am going to hold for a couple more weeks and phase planting them until the first of June...mostly because some are going where I now have broccoli and lettuce, which will be done by then.

One thing I have been doing the past couple of years to cheat the season a bit is to pot all the plants I plan to put in the ground in 8X8 Western Pulp pots first. Then I set them in the garden where they will be growing (more or less). I can still move them around and if it get's cold I can move them inside or against the house.

And when they are getting big and you are finally ready to put them permanently I just cut the bottom of the pulp put off, dig a 6" deep hole in a pre-loosened bed, and I set the pulp pot on the hole, twist it a few times to seat it, and backfill around the pot with soil. There is basically no transplant shock with this method and it creates a nice little raised bed for each plant and helps keep the leaves off the soil. When I water, I water the soil around the pulp put and not in the pot against the stem.

This seems to be a good method for the PNW since you don't have to commit to the ground too early.

Good luck!

bughunter99 · May 11, 2013

Never put all your eggs in one basket. Go ahead and push the line a bit and plant out a few of your least favorites. A smaller number will be much easier to protect.

Then in 4-5 days, evaluate again about putting a few more out.

Spring is always a pattern of highs and lows. There is no point planting if you don't have warm soil but if the soil is warm I always get some of mine out early.

I planted mine out a couple of weeks ago. The plants in the ground have made substantial progress compared to those not yet planted out.
The next 36 hours we are going to have cooler than desirable temps. But I just toss a bit of row cover over the plants and they get through it just fine.

May 11, 2013

Thank you for your responses. I think I will plant some now and hold some back, up pot them as BennB suggested. I've never seen large peat pots around here, where do you get them?
Thanks again and happy growing!

akgardengirl · May 11, 2013

I would put them out. I am now starting the process of taking mine out in the day and bringing them in at night. The temp was 45 when I woke this morning but hit close to 60 for the daytime yesterday.
Yours will handle it just fine. If you are worried the least bit then you can cover them with remay.
Sue B.

BennB · May 11, 2013

Ronaye,

I purchased mine in bulk online this winter, but Fred Meyer has them and the 8X8 is about $1.50 or so. Look for "Western Pulp Pots". These are much more robust than peat pots and won't degrade in a single season.

Benn

BennB · May 11, 2013

Here are some photos I took today of the pulp pots when I was putting in some plants at my Mother's house.

bughunter99 · May 12, 2013

Your plants looks great Benn. Interesting way to season push. I may steal that!

May 12, 2013

Beautiful plants! How long ago did you start them? Do you have a greenhouse?

BennB · May 12, 2013

Yah, I cheat a bit.

I have a small hobby greenhouse. After 18 years of hit and miss tomato growing in Seattle, always at the whim of the marine layer and rainy Junes, I went in and got the greenhouse before last year's season. My main goal was to try to get some fruit before September, which I did but I found out that growing out tomatoes in the greenhouse had its own challenges. I had a pretty steep learning curve last year, but I hope this year is better. A part of that was trying to select different varieties than I had grown in the past that did OK outside, but did not do well in the greenhouse in 2012. Most of these varieties were not available as starts locally, so I had to grow from seed.

This is the first year I've grown my own starts for about 10 years (not coincidentally when we had our first kid). I think the size and condition of the plants have more to do with a couple nice warm, generally rainless weeks in May (a complete abnormality) than anything else. These were started from seed on March 1 inside and were under florescent tubes for about 3 weeks. Most were potted up at the end of March directly into the pulp pots and were grown out in the greenhouse until the end of April, when the weather got nice so I put them outside. That is when they really shot up. I have others still in the greenhouse that have also done well, but the ones that have been outside are definitely bigger and more vigorous, but the ones in the greenhouse have more flowers and I have some cherries that have fruit set.

That is the nice thing about the pulp pot method. It provides the benefits of container planting early, but allows you to also get the benefits of planting in beds later in the season, and provides the flexibility to adjust when you put them in the ground. That said, I am also growing out some plants in 5 gallon buckets both inside the greenhouse and on my driveway and I have about 15 other plants in various containers around the house. I have learned that the best way to assure yourself of getting fruit in this climate is not to put all your eggs in one basket.

May 10, 2013	#1
Ronaye Guest Posts: n/a	Should the plants go outdoors now? Hello Tomatoheads - I started seeds indoors in late March and grew them with care under grow lights with good air circulation - no damping off - YAY!! We've had an inspiring and unusual stretch of warm weather the past couple of weeks, in which I gradually hardened them off; they've spent the past few days out on the deck 24/7, and they are looking good to this proud Mater Ma. Now that the weekend is upon us and I'm ready to put them out in the real dirt...we are heading back to a stretch of typical springlike Pacific Northwest weather. Daytime temps mid to low 60s or high 50s, with some nightime temps down into the 40s Their garden spot gets full sun, is on the SW side of my house with lots of reflection from the building, and I've had black plastic over the soil for about 10 days, should be nice and warm down below if not in the air. The varieties I have are Stupice, Siletz and Grandma's Pick. Two of them are supposedly bred for cooler temps. Am I stupid to put them out this weekend, should I just haul them back inside and keep under lights until the weather warms up again? If I bring them indoors again, do they have to be re-hardened later? Thinking I already know the answer to this question, thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and any tips you may have for us! rt

May 10, 2013	#2
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	My advise is ignore any advise I give you about when setting plants out this year. Every time I went ahead and planted the temp was lower than expected and frosted them, and when I finally didn't , it was warmer than expected and didn't frost. Weathers been crazy this year. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

May 11, 2013	#5
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	Never put all your eggs in one basket. Go ahead and push the line a bit and plant out a few of your least favorites. A smaller number will be much easier to protect. Then in 4-5 days, evaluate again about putting a few more out. Spring is always a pattern of highs and lows. There is no point planting if you don't have warm soil but if the soil is warm I always get some of mine out early. I planted mine out a couple of weeks ago. The plants in the ground have made substantial progress compared to those not yet planted out. The next 36 hours we are going to have cooler than desirable temps. But I just toss a bit of row cover over the plants and they get through it just fine. Last edited by bughunter99; May 11, 2013 at 05:56 PM.

May 11, 2013	#4
BennB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Seattle, Wa Posts: 77	Ronaye, There is always the risk of a 40 degree night up through July 5, but they need to go in some time before then or you won't get any fruit. This past few weeks has been great and soil temperatures have warmed up nicely. Your spot seems great on top of that. My guess is they will be fine as long as we don't have another June like last year with long stretches of 50's for highs and a ton of rain. So I'd say go for it. I'm in Seattle and will be putting some plants in the ground this weekend at my mother's house on Mother's day (a tradition). The rest I am going to hold for a couple more weeks and phase planting them until the first of June...mostly because some are going where I now have broccoli and lettuce, which will be done by then. One thing I have been doing the past couple of years to cheat the season a bit is to pot all the plants I plan to put in the ground in 8X8 Western Pulp pots first. Then I set them in the garden where they will be growing (more or less). I can still move them around and if it get's cold I can move them inside or against the house. And when they are getting big and you are finally ready to put them permanently I just cut the bottom of the pulp put off, dig a 6" deep hole in a pre-loosened bed, and I set the pulp pot on the hole, twist it a few times to seat it, and backfill around the pot with soil. There is basically no transplant shock with this method and it creates a nice little raised bed for each plant and helps keep the leaves off the soil. When I water, I water the soil around the pulp put and not in the pot against the stem. This seems to be a good method for the PNW since you don't have to commit to the ground too early. Good luck!

May 11, 2013	#7
akgardengirl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anchorage, AK zone 3/4 Posts: 1,410	I would put them out. I am now starting the process of taking mine out in the day and bringing them in at night. The temp was 45 when I woke this morning but hit close to 60 for the daytime yesterday. Yours will handle it just fine. If you are worried the least bit then you can cover them with remay. Sue B.

May 12, 2013	#10
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	Your plants looks great Benn. Interesting way to season push. I may steal that!

May 12, 2013	#12
BennB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Seattle, Wa Posts: 77	Yah, I cheat a bit. I have a small hobby greenhouse. After 18 years of hit and miss tomato growing in Seattle, always at the whim of the marine layer and rainy Junes, I went in and got the greenhouse before last year's season. My main goal was to try to get some fruit before September, which I did but I found out that growing out tomatoes in the greenhouse had its own challenges. I had a pretty steep learning curve last year, but I hope this year is better. A part of that was trying to select different varieties than I had grown in the past that did OK outside, but did not do well in the greenhouse in 2012. Most of these varieties were not available as starts locally, so I had to grow from seed. This is the first year I've grown my own starts for about 10 years (not coincidentally when we had our first kid). I think the size and condition of the plants have more to do with a couple nice warm, generally rainless weeks in May (a complete abnormality) than anything else. These were started from seed on March 1 inside and were under florescent tubes for about 3 weeks. Most were potted up at the end of March directly into the pulp pots and were grown out in the greenhouse until the end of April, when the weather got nice so I put them outside. That is when they really shot up. I have others still in the greenhouse that have also done well, but the ones that have been outside are definitely bigger and more vigorous, but the ones in the greenhouse have more flowers and I have some cherries that have fruit set. That is the nice thing about the pulp pot method. It provides the benefits of container planting early, but allows you to also get the benefits of planting in beds later in the season, and provides the flexibility to adjust when you put them in the ground. That said, I am also growing out some plants in 5 gallon buckets both inside the greenhouse and on my driveway and I have about 15 other plants in various containers around the house. I have learned that the best way to assure yourself of getting fruit in this climate is not to put all your eggs in one basket.