Yet Another Feedback Request List...

[Innoma]

I know, I know, another list asking for recommendations and feedback... sorry...

Anyway, here's what I'm looking at, but first, a little background:

I'm located in the Central San Joaquin Valley of CA (Zone 8a, I believe), which means hot summers, and the garden is located in full sun. Generally I plant out around April 15, but its getting to seem that's almost too late - by the time plants were socked into the ground last year, the heatwave hit, and production was low all around. This year I'm aiming for March 15, which might be pushing my luck, but I'll have a few backups in case of disaster.

While I've tried blacks and greens, it seems I'm the only member of that particular fan club as everyone who's on the receiving end of my my harvest uniformly goes for the big, blemish-free beefsteaks, so this year that will be among the priorities (as well as varieties that stand up to the California heat). Therefore, I'm looking at varieties that taste good (as subjective an experience as that may be), are large, red, relatively blemish-free, and can hang with the heat ... with a couple of wildcards thrown in because I can't resist at least a little experimentation.

Here's the list (all from TGS, who I generally prefer for seed)...

Believe It Or Not (large red beefteak, supposed to be fairly uniform in shape and blemish free)

Burpee's Supersteak VFN Hybrid (large red beefteak, supposed to be fairly uniform in shape and blemish free)

1884 (an almost random choice for a red beefsteak)

Henderson’s Winsall (a relatively new variety from TGS I know little about, meaning I must be a sucker for unknowns!)

Stump of the World (supposedly good flavor and somewhat more productive than Brandywine)

Creole (chosen primarily for heat tolerance rather than size or shape; seems to be well regarded)

Sugar Snack NT Hybrid (not real big on cherries but trying to be open-minded as well as curious about so-called sweet tomatoes)

Stupice (an early, cold tolerant experimental choice that I may plant out earlier than the rest)

If it helps any, for flavor, I've responded favorably in the past to things like Beefmaster, Paul Robeson and Black from Tula (but they tend to crack so much I throw half of them away) Brandywine (just not very productive), and have disliked or remained unimpressed with Costoluto Genovese (pretty, deep red, heat tolerant, productive, but odd taste), Yellow Pear (an indestructible garden pest), Azoychka and just about any bi-color variety (bland).

What do you think?

[feldon30]

Varieties
I also don't think 2006 was a good year to judge varieties as So. California was hotter than usual and the Northeast was exceptionally cold and wet.

I have not grown anything on that list except Stupice which I did not like the flavor of, but have heard some good things about some of those vars. I have been burned at the stake for commenting on anything I have not grown personally.

I would give Black from Tula another shot if you have the space for it, but start it early! January 1st if you can.

Color
As for people not even being willing to try purples and others, that is up to you to educate people. I have not had the pleasure of tasting Black from Tula, but its brethren Cherokee Purple and Black Krim knocked me out and I love them.

On the surface, people rightly detest the taste of grocery store tomatoes. But it is so ingrained in them that on a subconscious level, I think their first reaction is to reject anything that doesn't look like what they're used to. Without prodding and suggestion, they will reach for colorless red bag of water #1059. You have to bring them out of their safe zone and say "try this!"

HeirloomTomatoesofTexas.com has taken the extraordinary step of insisting that all of their customers buy at least one non-red tomato variety. Their reason is that some of those customers have proven to not have a "sense of humor" and perhaps expect perfection out of every plant, as if nature will perform on demand.

When
As for scheduling, April 15th might be late for you, I don't know. April 15th is 7 weeks late for Houston which is also Zone 8, but not all Zone 8's are created equal.

I am starting seeds on December 25th and will pot up to 1 gallon pots and be ready to put out very large transplants on March 1st if evening temps have stayed out of the 30's and the long range forecast on Weather Underground looks good.

Starting early doesn't work for everyone, but from the tomato growers I've spoken to in Houston and some of the similarities to So. Cal, it seems to be a requirement.

Instead of a long growing season encompassing April - September, our tomato plants have to get established, set fruit, and be wrapping up by mid-August with a few stragglers if we're lucky.

[Innoma]

I quite like Paul Robeson and Black from Tula, but the problem I've had with those varieties in years past was that they cracked so much that fully half of them were unusable by the time they were ready. I had thought maybe irregular or too much irrigation was the culprit, but even with drip on timers, the problem persists. I've really tried to push Tula and Robeson on people, but the dreaded Red Bias is insurmountable with some people, just like the odd-shaped beefsteaks that look funny but are perfectly good after a bit of creative slicing. I've tried Carbon as well, but those seem to crack just as readily as any other black.

I do plan to start seed by the first week of January, however, because April 15 really does seem too late to plant out around here. Looking back over the regional weather for the last few years, I haven't seen any frost dates from March onward, but there are usually numerous hail warnings in late-March through April, which is why up until now I've stuck with April 15. This year I'll go ahead and aim for March, making sure I have some backups in place in case disaster strikes (then give the leftovers to any intrepid local soul who can get past their "I've heard heirlooms are too much trouble!" mindset, of which there are many around here).

[landarc]

Innoma,
I would suspect that a mid-March date is a little early for the Sn Joaquin area, but, I don't see anything wrong with throwing a few in as staggered planting and keeping a few back, just in case. I think you are right that we can generally expect mild weather in March.

As for Stupice, I can't say that it was my favorite and I found Eva Purple Ball to be just about as early and with better flavor out of my garden. *Your results may vary.

You are in a pretty fabulous place to grow tomatoes if you are in the San Joaquin valley. I suspect that some of the members here will be able to point you in a better direction as we have several valley denizens around here.

[shelleybean]

Stump of the World is one of my favorites for flavor. I have not yet found a large tomato that produces non-stop all summer for me. I always have a period of a few weeks where all I can pick is cherries becauese of the heat. Then when it cools down, the larger ones start up again. From your list, I think you can fill in those gaps with your cherry and Stupice and probably Creole. When the bigger ones are setting fruit, Stump does very well for me in terms of production.

I grew Supersteak many years ago but was not impressed with flavor. It is was a decent producer of pretty, crack free fruit, but I thought it was rather bland and disappointing.

[greggf]

I'll agree with Feldon and Bob here, and say that Stupice has not bowled me over, either. Oh, it's okay, and will ripen reliably for me in the North Country, but I'd honestly prefer the Supersteak on your list, even though it seldom ripens for me. Tastes good when it does.

I've thought about trying the Azoychka you've tried, but many agree with you about it, so maybe I'll continue to ignore it.

=gregg=

[gardengalrn]

I really liked Stump of the World as well. Flavor was great and these got really big in my garden. I liked Stupice as well but you have to like it for what it is, a small early fruit. It does not compare to the slicers IMO but certainly was appreciated when it was the first and only thing I had. I've had the same experience in lugging tomatoes to work and having them picked over for the perfect red ones. I've converted a few, though. Last year I tried Big Beef hybrid and Momotaro (hybrid) and people at work went wild over them while I didn't find them very tasty. Lots of "perfect" red tomatoes.

['mater]

I'm looking at varieties that taste good (as subjective an experience as that may be), are large, red, relatively blemish-free, and can hang with the heat

IMO I think you will want to include Wins All for sure. The couple of times I've grown it I have been impressed by the consistency of size (avg. slightly over 1 lb. to nearly 2 lbs), good flavor, and generally blemish free to boot. Was not a heavy producer for me (would call it "average"), but it did continue to set on throughout the season which tends to be quite hot and dry from mid-July through the end of August around here.

I've also grown Stupice and until last year has been a standard in my garden for the past few years. Family enjoys the smaller fruits it produces in large numbers throughout the season. Have never figured weight/plant, but I've always been amazed at the sheer numbers it produces. Apparently not one of the more flavorful based on others opinions, but I think it has a good flavor and would be worth considering if you can stand a smaller red fruited tomato (though I will have to try the Eva Purple Ball for comparison).

Stump of the World is one variety I often hear good things about and it really needs to get a place on my list to try. As one of your varieties I've not grown personally, I would say it would be worth trying based on others comments.

Yellow Pear- "an indestructible garden pest". Hehehehe...tell me about it. Intentionally planted it one year and have had volunteers every year since. Kids love it as an oddity that's easily raided when passing by the garden though, so I can never quite bring myself to ridding myself of it any year. Oh well...

[Innoma]

The infamous Yellow Pear is one of those varieties that seem to get a lot of bad press and I kinda hate to add to its misery, but...

The second year I had a garden was the first year I started from seed. I did my research, read books, perused web sites and figured I was well equipped to start various plants from seed. After all, my grandfather from Oklahoma - who I thoroughly enjoyed for his colorful ways, but still kinda thought of as a bit of an uneducated country bumpkin - had done exactly that for years and years with stellar, effortless results, so how hard could it be?

As it turns out, it was far more difficult than I imagined. I cut corners, rushed things, didn't pay enough attention, ignored the concept of hardening off, and the end result was leggy, weak plants that got set out too late in too dry soil. It was a dismal failure, to say the least - the okra and squash never came up, the beans were decimated by gophers, and every single tomato plant gave up the ghost save for Yellow Pear.

It was a discouraging moment in my gardening career. As I gazed across that dismal, parched desert, I simply threw in the towel and cried "Uncle!" (or should I say "Grandpa!," which would be more fitting). The only thing that managed to survive was Yellow Pear, which hung on all year despite utter neglect and a complete lack of irrigation, almost as if a stark rebuke of my so-called education and research. The more balefully I gazed upon that indestructible, sprawled-out beast, the more perfectly-shaped, absolutely tasteless tomatoes it would pump out, like it was taunting me - my own personal pear-shaped demon from hell. I didn't even try growing anything the following year, such was my defeat.

But the catalogs kept coming, and the fires were rekindled. Years of refining technique, seasonal triumphs and minor cataclysms later and I'm still no Gardening Giant by any stretch of the imagination (maybe "Garden Challenged" at worst or "Mildly Competent" at best would be more suitable terms). But I did learn that my grandfather's skills were every bit as hard-won and valid as any other kind of knowledge I can think of (with a dash of Artistry and a pinch of Practicality thrown in to boot).

So, while Yellow Pear may have ended up hardening my resolve and teaching me a lessen in humility, it still reminds of Dismal Failures, and for that reason alone, I'll never grow it again.

[Vince]

I am not sure if it is as hot in the SAN Juaquin valley as it is here in Riverside Ca. But you have little chance of getting TOM plants to throw out tons of fruit thru 90-100+ TEMPS. The only exeptions I know, from the heat wave of last summer, are early girl and heatwave. These two kept settting fruit in 100+ temps, amazing. But, the taste was far from fabulous, although better than store bought. I think you just have to plant early, the varieties that you can't buy. I planted March 15th and had decent yields on all the big toms. If you catch a frost, and the early plants die, I am sure you can find a nursurey with healthy seedlings in your local area.

Vince

Who is looking forward to eating a Brandywine Christmas Day.