newb question on growing multiple heirlooms

[epsilon]

I was wondering. How does one go about labeling seed from heirlooms that are grown within proximity to each other?

If I grow five varieties and save seed from this current season how would I go about labeling, resowing, and evaluating the seed in the next season?

Say if this season I were to grow KBX and Black Cherokee in the same area, would I assume that the next generation of seeds that I plant would have picked up some amount of the DNA from a parent that was grown close or do I only make that call if the subsequent fruit showed some sort of deviation from the documented norm?

I ask this as I was told that I need to grow a whole bunch of different varieties of heirlooms this year, as opposed to my normal here's a beef steak and here's a paste.

Or as a normal small grower do I just make notes as what possibilities to expect from future F gens?

Or do I save seed from each plant and call it as such?

Or do I not worry because this isn't really my "game" yet and I'm really just in it for the tasty rewards of planting?

Gaston

[KarenO]

There can be a small percentage of cross pollination between open pollinated tomatoes grown in proximity to one another however the vast majority will be self pollinated and seed collected will come true to type in subsequent generations. To reduce the chance of any cross pollination you can "bag" unopened blooms to prevent any chance of cross pollination and collect your seeds only from fruits which result from these blooms. Any seed collected from fruit resulting from bagged blooms can reliably be labelled whatever the variety is. Eg: seed collected from a bagged bloom fruit of a Cherokee purple will be Cherokee purple. Almost always, even if the bloom is not bagged the seed will be Cherokee purple I would say as a rule most of us here do not bag our blooms unless collecting seed for sale
Karen

[feldon30]

Cross pollination of tomatoes is 5-10%, more if there is a lot of insect activity and plants are quite close. If you can plant your tomatoes in clusters such that one or two plants of KBX are isolated from Black Cherokee by several plants, and vice versa, then you could save seeds from the ones that are most distant from each other. That would increase your chance that the seeds you save are pure and uncrossed.

[amideutch]

Cross pollination of tomatoes is 5-10%, more if there is a lot of insect activity and plants are quite close.

I think 2-5% is more in the ball park. I know Carolyn has said when she was growing 200-400 tomato plants and letting them sprawl on the ground she had very little cross pollination.

Ami

[Tormato]

I estimate I get about 4% cross pollination. If you're worried at all about it, read up on "bagging blossoms".

Gary

[epsilon]

This is about to turn tangent.

So if I keep the Toms spaced at 2' and follow the above diagram. I shouldn't have any neurotic worries that I would in the future be sharing seed that is not as labeled ?

Also I should technically be able to enjoy the benefits of the companion planting without to weighing down the bed?

Or should I just dedicate the bed to toms and ditch the extras?

[carolyn137]

THe degree of X pollination can vary widely, depending on where, geographically some grow their tomatoes, what the possible insect pollinators are like in a given area and what the weather is like in any one seaspn.

Here's a link to one of the best FAQ's I know having to do with preventing X pollination.

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/t...852004159.html

The degree of seed purity should be looked at as to what you want to do with the seeds, that is, for home use only, for SSE listing, for trading, which I don't do except when someone sends me a new uncirculated heirloom variety, etc.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

THe degree of X pollination can vary widely, depending on where, geographically some grow their tomatoes, what the possible insect pollinators are like in a given area and what the weather is like in any one seaspn.

Here's a link to one of the best FAQ's I know having to do with preventing X pollination.

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/t...852004159.html

The degree of seed purity should be looked at as to what you want to do with the seeds, that is, for home use only, for SSE listing, for trading, which I don't do except when someone sends me a new circulated heirloom variety, etc.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

Carolyn Thanks For posting that link. What a trip to the past going back to garden web.

I crawled The FAQ you had put up and it has put my neurosis to rest. Another Reason why I'm glad that I don't fool around with orchids anymore.

Gaston

[habitat_gardener]

Originally Posted by epsilon

...Or should I just dedicate the bed to toms and ditch the extras?

Yes. When I've planted tomato plants 2 ft. apart at the edges of planting beds, it's been hard enough to find the tomatoes on the far side of each plant, let alone anything planted in the middle of a bed! If I had a 6x6 bed, I'd make a path through the center. And unless those are dry beans (which you wouldn't need to get to until after the tomato plants are done), I'd plant them somewhere else.

However, if all I had was a 6x6 bed and wanted to plant most of those, here's what I'd do. First I'd make a path so I could get to the center of the plot -- at least a "keyhole" on one side.

Beans on single poles.
One of my neighbors at the community garden used to grow pole beans at the edges of her plot on single 6-8 ft. bamboo poles. The vines would climb up and tangle on the way down, so the bamboo stake would be covered in a clump of bean vines. Not pretty, but fairly easy to pick, and with the poles angled outward from the planting bed, a real space saver.

Basil at east edge.
Last year, I had basil planted at the edges of some tomato plots. The plants that did best (2-4 times the size and much healthier) were the ones on the east side, shaded from the afternoon sun. I gave them enough room so that if I were a basil plant looking up, I'd see sky rather than tomato foliage. In other words, the basil plants were not under the tomato plants, even at full tomato-jungle stage.

Squash under tomatoes (lower production).
I've often grown vining and bushy summer squash under tomato plants. This is a good way to keep from getting inundated with summer squash. I've still gotten squash, but probably many fewer than I would have if they had been growing in full sun. It gets pretty crowded in there, though.

Reduce number of tomato plants.
I know, it's sacrilege to suggest such a thing here. But in my experience, 2 ft. spacing is pretty dense for tomato plants, especially if you want to grow something else in the bed. I've found it's important to be able to reach all sides of a tomato plant. Last year at one of my gardens the plants had such dense foliage that I had trouble finding all the tomatoes before the critters did. I picked what I could find at first blush, and invariably I'd find a few gushy overripe munched-on tomatoes I'd overlooked.