Does size matter when saving OP seed

[mensplace]

Having now looked at the seed from hundreds of varieties it seems that the size of the seed has little to do with the size of the fruit as some huge varieties have very small seed while much smaller fruited varieties may well have far larger seed.

But, within any single variety is there any real relationship regarding the size and plumpness of seeds when selecting from those from one fruit.

With the number of seed possible from one fruit should the size, shape, plumpness etc. even be a major factor in saving for the next year?

[Mark$]

On a related topic, does the size, vigor of the seedling mater? With the chance of cross pollination, I may have been saving the wrong seedling all of these years. While some of my regulars usually show very hardy seedlings (Earl's Faux, Big Rainbow come to mind), some of the new varieties the strongest seedlings may have been a crossed fruit. This makes sense in now that I think about it. I'll save the average looking seedlings from now on.
This doesn't explain the potato leafed varieties coming out of normal leafed varieties however.

[joseph]

I often plant the largest seeds from a fruit, speculating that they have more stored energy and will thus grow quicker. In my short-season garden I need every advantage that I can get. That might also mean that I am inadvertently selecting for larger seeds in my tomatoes.

I also typically plant something like twice as many tomatoes as I want to plant out, and cull out the slowest growing seedlings. That might mean that I am (deliberately) selecting for hybrid vigor or larger seeds.

[mensplace]

Seems like I have unknowingly launched many an inquiry in terms of how many factors may be related too seed size; all interesting. SO, in saving seeds, what does the initial size impact?

[joseph]

I think that if I plant larger seeds, that the plants grow faster, and if they grow faster they are a bit bigger when they get planted into the garden, and if they are a bit bigger they are more capable of out-competing weeds, so they get even bigger faster. Plants that are out-competing weeds have more energy available to store more energy into next year's seeds. So I believe that next year's crop grows quicker/faster.

[kath]

I know that the seeds of different varieties can vary quite a bit in size. (I prefer small seed that's not as noticeable when eating.) But it's always seemed to me when saving seed that mature seeds of a given variety are all pretty much the same size. Wouldn't any smaller ones just be immature? That'd definitely make going for the larger ones the smart thing to do.

kath

[Doug9345]

When I'm saving seed the only one's I worry about is the ones that look obviously immature. If I'm doing a trade with someone I try to send only good plump seeds. With seed from plants that weren't isolated or bagged I'd be concerned with tossing all the seeds of a certain size unless I understood the seed characteristics of a particular variety very well.

This article talks about seed size. http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/...l.pgen.1000347

It's a technical paper but if you read through it, ( I haven't finished it yet ) there appears to be some merit that seed size has some correlation to other grow characteristics.

[joseph]

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/...l.pgen.1000347

Great article!

"This gene exerts its control on seed size, not through the maternal plant, but rather via gene expression in the developing zygote."

Because the size of the seed depends on the genetics of both the father and the mother, it might be possible to select for hybridized seed based on seed size. So purists might want to eliminated the largest seeds and the smallest to maintain varietal purity. And people seeking hybrids might want to focus on planting the smallest and the largest seeds on the chance that they may be the most likely to be hybridized.

"Why seed size increased during domestication in crops not consumed for their seeds is unclear. However, it has been conjectured that seed size increased in these species due to indirect selection for greater seedling vigor and germination uniformity under field production".

In my own breeding/selection projects, I place great emphasis on quick germination and high seedling vigor. Plants have to germinate fast, and grow quickly for me because I am such a lackadaisical weeder and my growing season is so short.