Ildi multiflora question

[Levent]

Here are some questions that I hope senior members can answer.
Is multiflora trait dominant or recessive?
S. lycopersicum 'Ildi' could it be considered a multiflora type tomato?
Is tomato 'Ildi' a heirloom or a man made cross?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Levent

Here are some questions that I hope senior members can answer.
Is multiflora trait dominant or recessive?
S. lycopersicum 'Ildi' could it be considered a multiflora type tomato?
Is tomato 'Ildi' a heirloom or a man made cross?

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...ldi+multiflora

Above is a thread from last year about Ildi, and as you can see no one knows the exact source of this variety. There are many other multiflora varieties, some have been bred, and in the thread above I referred to the two re Alan Kapuler.

I don't know if the trait is dominant or recessive and haven't got the time to go to the Rick Center to check that out, but maybe someone here knows or can do that for you.

The best known multiflora, by far, is Riesentraube, we have it with its German name but it was known in Europe by several different names according to the language of the country.

And was brought from Europe to the the US in the mid-1800's and that's before any man made crosses were known, as far as I know.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn

Carolyn

[Fusion_power]

Actually, the earliest documentation we have about multiflora is that it was found back in the mid-1800's as a result of some crosses with a wild species. The gene expression is penetrant meaning that a first generation cross will exhibit some traits of multiflora and some from the other parent. I grew an F1 of ildi with a red tomato in 2012 and got multiflora expression about 2/3 as much as Ildi. The major difference between them was that the F1 plant set a lot more fruit than the pure Ildi.

DarJones

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Actually, the earliest documentation we have about multiflora is that it was found back in the mid-1800's as a result of some crosses with a wild species. The gene expression is penetrant meaning that a first generation cross will exhibit some traits of multiflora and some from the other parent. I grew an F1 of ildi with a red tomato in 2012 and got multiflora expression about 2/3 as much as Ildi. The major difference between them was that the F1 plant set a lot more fruit than the pure Ildi.

DarJones

Darrel, Riesenbtraube was known to be brought from Eupoe and was known in Philadelphia in the mid-1800's as I posted above, and was in Europe, obviously before that forhow long noone knows.

Could you please tell me where the documentation is that says that the first one known, Riesentraube, was the result of crossing with a wild species?

That would bring up info from whenever is first appeared in Europe and I have no specific date for that,

I could look it up but you might know ASAP which species do have the multiflora expression that were known back then?

Thanks

Carolyn

[Fusion_power]

Carolyn, I'm busy planting seed and don't have time to hunt up references. I remember reading that the multiflora trait did not occur in either parent but when they were crossed, it showed up. I seem to remember that the reference came from Alan Kapuler but can't say that as a certainty.

DarJones

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Carolyn, I'm busy planting seed and don't have time to hunt up references. I remember reading that the multiflora trait did not occur in either parent but when they were crossed, it showed up. I seem to remember that the reference came from Alan Kapuler but can't say that as a certainty.

DarJones

http://www.realseeds.co.uk/centitomatoes.html

Above is a link from the link that I gave earlier in the thread,mentions Kapuler.

I know somewhere that I'd read what parents were used for both the red and yellow Centiflors, maybe he said that in the SSE Yearbook when he first listed them, by his daughter, but like you, no time right now to go searching.

And I haven't e-mailed Gary about George O Brian either. I have a very long list of things to do and those on the wait list.

So you sow seeds and I'll pack seeds and we'll meet in Kansas which I'm told is the middle of the US.

Carolyn

[Fusion_power]

Do a google search for hypertress tomato and you will find a thread on alanbishop that has quite a bit of Alan Kapuler's info re developing the Centiflor lines. They were from a cross involving S. Habrochaites (L. Hirsutum). My memory is of a discussion of much older lines developed in England back in the 1800's. There was a cross that resulted in hyper blooming traits. It was so excessive that the plants would not produce a normal crop of fruit, instead tying up all energy in producing huge blossom clusters.

DarJones

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Do a google search for hypertress tomato and you will find a thread on alanbishop that has quite a bit of Alan Kapuler's info re developing the Centiflor lines. They were from a cross involving S. Habrochaites (L. Hirsutum). My memory is of a discussion of much older lines developed in England back in the 1800's. There was a cross that resulted in hyper blooming traits. It was so excessive that the plants would not produce a normal crop of fruit, instead tying up all energy in producing huge blossom clusters.

DarJones

http://alanbishop.★★★★★★★★★.com/inde...nt&thread=2244

I did find it, read it, and found it very interesting but he used a different species than you mentioned unless humboldti has been changed to another name, and I don't have time to pursue that.

And it's clear from the thread that the hypertress trait can appear spontaneously as well so no crossing is needed.

I don't know about any hypertress ones being developed in England, could be, but it does suggest that Riesentraube, which is the oldest one I know of, possibly pre-1800, and probably was a spontaeous mutation, and not a cross b'c of the location in Europe and not having any wild tomato species of the right species in the area.

So thanks for what words to enter at Google and I didn't take time to read all the other links since the one above is the best IMO. There was another ink that I don't have time to read of an article that Alan wrote for the SSE Heritage magazine that had to do with breeding this and that.

Several times Alan requested seeds from me via the SSE YEarbooks, that I remember well.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

OK, it looks like the software is blocking out the link so anyone interested just go to Google and enter hypertress tomato and it's the first one that pops up, at least it was for me.

Carolyn

I grew several kinds of multifloras a few years ago. I'm sure the catalogue stated I'd have hundreds of tomatoes so I was disappointed that most of the flowers did not become fruit. I thought there must be a problem with my conditions. Now I've read that it is normal for only some to fruit.

Has anyone tried a bit of shaking or pollinating or ??? to see if more of the flowers will become fruit?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by LDiane

I grew several kinds of multifloras a few years ago. I'm sure the catalogue stated I'd have hundreds of tomatoes so I was disappointed that most of the flowers did not become fruit. I thought there must be a problem with my conditions. Now I've read that it is normal for only some to fruit.

Has anyone tried a bit of shaking or pollinating or ??? to see if more of the flowers will become fruit?

Yes, I have, with Riesentraube, which is also a multiflora, and it makes no difference.

The number of blossoms on a multiflora truss is way more than that which can become fruit, so blossom abortion occurs.

And you've taken me back in memories to that Catherine Vinson site as you posted elsewhere here. Chuck Wyatt was a regular there as you know and he'd pass along info to me and more specifically said that she started the site as a way to get back at me for being a know it all, as Chuck told me.Really sad, actually.

It's too bad the site floundered and then crashed when she lost the data b'c I think something good could have come from it.

Carolyn

[greenthumbomaha]

Yellow Centiflor Hypertress is one of the seed offerings at the local public library seed library. There isn't much discussion out there. Has anyone gronw it, and what were your thoughts ... taste, production, disease, dtm etc.

- Lisa