Best Lunar Planting Time for Maters? - Page 3

bower · January 12, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocossin

I am going to resolve conflict by going with astronomical sign placement, which I believe to be traditional here. Moon sign rules have an order of precedence. For example, it appears to me that sign symbolism trumps element association. The tomato is the king of the garden as Leo is the king of beasts, and many tomatoes are a fiery red, so Leo should rule tomatoes, although it is considered a barren sign when element is given precedence over sign symbolism. I enjoy the poetry.

I enjoy the poetry too.

I find it a nice way to be mindful of one thing or another.
Astronomical and astrological placement of the moon and planets are the same afaik. Just different 'uses' of the same data?
The difference in almanacs is due to local time zone differences, which means the moon is in or out of a certain sign for more or less of that day, and they simplify by saying, okay, the moon today is in whichever sign it occupies most of that day.... but it might be morning in Cancer and 'best sign for planting' then afternoon in Leo 'don't let em dry out!"

There's a very nice ephemeris at http://www.artcharts.com/calendar/ephemeris.html, which gives the full, new and quarter moon time and date for each month, as well as twice daily position in Eastern Standard Time - it's not hard to adjust for your own time zone if different than that.

I do plant by the moon, for the poetry. I've never done any kind of test to compare one planting time with another, it just helps me to decide when to get things in motion.

One thing I have noticed, moon-wise, is that bread yeast seems very sensitive. I can hardly get a loaf of bread to rise on the waning moon just before it's new - it will take hours more, anyway. And the opposite, when the moon is full my bread rises fast.

FLRedHeart · January 12, 2015

From an astronomical point of view, the gravitational influence of the Moon is far less that rumors would have us believe. Gravity is easy to compute, and speak of: The Moon contributes to about 1/180 the grafitational attraction as the Sun. Even a dry seed varies in weight by 5% depending on how humid it is, so it is hard to justify that the moon would have any effect on germination.

I don't agree with the website explaining earlier since it is confusing a few concepts. The reason the tides are such a powerful manifestation is because when the Moon is overhead, it is closer for a Floridian than when the Moon is overhead opposite (over the Indian Ocean), and the water adjusts because depending on which side you are on, there is a 3.3% difference in the Moon's gravity across the Earth's diameter due to the distance you are from the Moon.*

What that means is the Moon's influence varies much more each and every day than due to the phase, and the maximum upcoming Lunar effect may be during the Spring syzygy, a.k.a., Sun-Moon-Earth alignment when the Moon is New (not Full!) and directly overhead, at the time it is closest to Earth in its orbit. This alignment (not the resulting phase) can cause the tides to be almost 1/4 higher than normal.

I love the Moon and am fascinated by it and I finde the astronomical explanation more fabulous than the astrological one:

I think the reason to plant 4 days before a full moon is for a hard working farmer who has to manually sow for the entire week to get their crop planted without modern machines, is because that is the day the Moon rises in the mid-late afternoon and will be up high enough to plant by night, and each successive day gets brighter giving uninterrupted planting through dusk.

You can work without interruption until about midnight before it starts dimming four days before the full moon. and each day you get an hour more and brighter. After the Full Moon you get less days, maybe 2-3 because there will be twilight before rise. By the fourth day after the twilight cannot bridge you ajnd will interrupt work, but you should have already sown because the days after the full Moon you have the bright Moon lighting your fields through the entire night. This works better if you are fairly north, like in Ohio.

Just my 2c take on this fascinating thread.

*That only works because one side is 8000 miles closer to the Moon, 3.3% the distance from Earth to the Moon, when it is overhead vs. underfoot.

pocossin · January 13, 2015

In my opinion the benefit of moon signs is psychological. The more meaningful a task, the more satisfying it is. There is a reduction in anxiety when actions are performed at auspicious times. Needful tasks are scheduled and more likely to be performed. Order is imposed on the uncertainty of the future. Note the advantage of this simple planning system:

Monday: Wash Day
Tuesday: Ironing Day
Wednesday: Sewing Day
Thursday: Market Day
Friday: Cleaning Day
Saturday: Baking Day
Sunday: Day of Rest

These astrological assignments gave an organization to life. Monday, moon day. The moon governs water; therefore, wash. And so on for the rest except for Saturday and Sunday, which appear to have been switched in the adaptation to Christianity. What we humans do depends as much on morale as it does on efficacy.

bower · January 13, 2015

Picking the best planting date is tricky, because it's not just, when do I want to harvest ripe tomatoes, but also, when will the weather be right for transplant.

Where I live, the conditions in spring could only be described as extremely variable. Year round, really!

So far, science doesn't provide us with accurate forecasts months ahead.
So I read about and tried a method of forecasting general features of local weather conditions in a given 2 week period by the local chart at the time of the full and new moons - planets which are conjunct or close to the MC, ascendant or other angles (which are different at different lat/lon) are supposed to be the indicators of local weather. Since the data is available ahead of time (unlike the scientific forecast) it can be calculated in advance to get an outlook. There are sites online where you can just plug in the time, date and place and presto, the computer generates the chart. Too easy. I've been doing this for a couple of years now, and most of the time it has been spot on for a general take on the weather outlook. So I can look at that and say, well the forecast is cold and wet in the week I wanted to transplant.. I might have to hold off. Or, the forecast is for a warm and early spring.. fits the plan to start early.
It could be right or wrong (just like the seven day scientific forecast!) but as you say, Pocossin, there's a psychological benefit to feeling that you've considered and are prepared for the risk/reward equation, whether you win or lose in the end or not.

So today is stormy, and this thread reminded me I haven't done my charts yet... I went in to get the moon time and dates and also took a look at the past two years, to compare.
2013 the forecast was for a warm early spring, so I started early, (and we did have the warm early spring) and I had my first ripe tomato right around the full capricorn moon 23 June.

2014 the forecast was for a cold late spring, so I started late but still had to hold back my plants for transplant, it was so cold and late.

I had first ripe tomatoes, again right around the full capricorn moon, this time July 12.
Just guessing but I suspect my plant date this year will get me first ripe July 1st... whatever the weather, but hopefully not too far out of sync. Not as good as 2013 but I'll take it.

pocossin · January 17, 2015

Two good links:

http://www.plantingbythesigns.net/
Phil Case's blog on moon sign gardening

http://www.granny-miller.com/astrolo...rian-practice/
Katherine Grossman on how to select a date

I plan to read the two book on moon signs by Taylor Reese and Jack Pyle and will report on them here in a few weeks.

tnpeppers · January 17, 2015

I followed the advice of Phil Case last year and got slammed with tomatoes and beans. Coincidence? Got me. I will do the same this year.

bower · January 17, 2015

tnpeppers, those are the same basic principles that I follow too. I start peppers in early February and tomatoes late feb or early march, and I often pick taurus moon for my start, and have the first sprouts and seed leaves out when the moon's in gemini.
But maybe cancer moon is even better? It falls a little later, and closer to the full moon... is that your favourite time to start?

I've always wondered why so many people say scorpio is a good sign to plant tomatoes. Scorpio moon is in a waning phase all winter, until it comes full some time in May... you'd be waiting to start the tomatoes in June to have it in the waxing or 'light' phase for aboveground crops.

Afaict, waning scorpio moon is a good time for winter sanitation routines, as it rules the 'invisible' pests and diseases. Not that I need an excuse to worry about those!

Always wanting to start the new seedlings without last year's pests...

tnpeppers · January 17, 2015

I am looking at starting my peppers the last week of January under a waxing moon...I might spread it out over Taurus, Gemini and Cancer just to see if I note a difference. Might try some herbs at the same time. Tomatoes third week in February, some more third week of March. That depends on DTM. (Late ones in Feb, early ones in March)

loulac · February 3, 2015

I hope you won’t mind too much my going off line a bit. I must say I had never been much interested in moon cycles till last year when I sowed carrots during “the right period”. A third of the line was eaten by vermin and I sowed them again two weeks later, same place, same packet of seeds The first batch gave perfect carrots when they were all forked in the second batch ! Any explanation will be welcome.

January 12, 2015	#32
FLRedHeart Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: FL 8b/9a Posts: 262	From an astronomical point of view, the gravitational influence of the Moon is far less that rumors would have us believe. Gravity is easy to compute, and speak of: The Moon contributes to about 1/180 the grafitational attraction as the Sun. Even a dry seed varies in weight by 5% depending on how humid it is, so it is hard to justify that the moon would have any effect on germination. I don't agree with the website explaining earlier since it is confusing a few concepts. The reason the tides are such a powerful manifestation is because when the Moon is overhead, it is closer for a Floridian than when the Moon is overhead opposite (over the Indian Ocean), and the water adjusts because depending on which side you are on, there is a 3.3% difference in the Moon's gravity across the Earth's diameter due to the distance you are from the Moon.* What that means is the Moon's influence varies much more each and every day than due to the phase, and the maximum upcoming Lunar effect may be during the Spring syzygy, a.k.a., Sun-Moon-Earth alignment when the Moon is New (not Full!) and directly overhead, at the time it is closest to Earth in its orbit. This alignment (not the resulting phase) can cause the tides to be almost 1/4 higher than normal. I love the Moon and am fascinated by it and I finde the astronomical explanation more fabulous than the astrological one: I think the reason to plant 4 days before a full moon is for a hard working farmer who has to manually sow for the entire week to get their crop planted without modern machines, is because that is the day the Moon rises in the mid-late afternoon and will be up high enough to plant by night, and each successive day gets brighter giving uninterrupted planting through dusk. You can work without interruption until about midnight before it starts dimming four days before the full moon. and each day you get an hour more and brighter. After the Full Moon you get less days, maybe 2-3 because there will be twilight before rise. By the fourth day after the twilight cannot bridge you ajnd will interrupt work, but you should have already sown because the days after the full Moon you have the bright Moon lighting your fields through the entire night. This works better if you are fairly north, like in Ohio. Just my 2c take on this fascinating thread. That only works because one side is 8000 miles closer to the Moon, 3.3% the distance from Earth to the Moon, when it is overhead vs. underfoot. Last edited by FLRedHeart; January 13, 2015 at 12:32 AM. Reason: spelling, correct example error*

January 13, 2015	#33
pocossin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: NC zone 8 Posts: 11	In my opinion the benefit of moon signs is psychological. The more meaningful a task, the more satisfying it is. There is a reduction in anxiety when actions are performed at auspicious times. Needful tasks are scheduled and more likely to be performed. Order is imposed on the uncertainty of the future. Note the advantage of this simple planning system: Monday: Wash Day Tuesday: Ironing Day Wednesday: Sewing Day Thursday: Market Day Friday: Cleaning Day Saturday: Baking Day Sunday: Day of Rest These astrological assignments gave an organization to life. Monday, moon day. The moon governs water; therefore, wash. And so on for the rest except for Saturday and Sunday, which appear to have been switched in the adaptation to Christianity. What we humans do depends as much on morale as it does on efficacy.

January 13, 2015	#34
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Picking the best planting date is tricky, because it's not just, when do I want to harvest ripe tomatoes, but also, when will the weather be right for transplant. Where I live, the conditions in spring could only be described as extremely variable. Year round, really! So far, science doesn't provide us with accurate forecasts months ahead. So I read about and tried a method of forecasting general features of local weather conditions in a given 2 week period by the local chart at the time of the full and new moons - planets which are conjunct or close to the MC, ascendant or other angles (which are different at different lat/lon) are supposed to be the indicators of local weather. Since the data is available ahead of time (unlike the scientific forecast) it can be calculated in advance to get an outlook. There are sites online where you can just plug in the time, date and place and presto, the computer generates the chart. Too easy. I've been doing this for a couple of years now, and most of the time it has been spot on for a general take on the weather outlook. So I can look at that and say, well the forecast is cold and wet in the week I wanted to transplant.. I might have to hold off. Or, the forecast is for a warm and early spring.. fits the plan to start early. It could be right or wrong (just like the seven day scientific forecast!) but as you say, Pocossin, there's a psychological benefit to feeling that you've considered and are prepared for the risk/reward equation, whether you win or lose in the end or not. So today is stormy, and this thread reminded me I haven't done my charts yet... I went in to get the moon time and dates and also took a look at the past two years, to compare. 2013 the forecast was for a warm early spring, so I started early, (and we did have the warm early spring) and I had my first ripe tomato right around the full capricorn moon 23 June. 2014 the forecast was for a cold late spring, so I started late but still had to hold back my plants for transplant, it was so cold and late. I had first ripe tomatoes, again right around the full capricorn moon, this time July 12. Just guessing but I suspect my plant date this year will get me first ripe July 1st... whatever the weather, but hopefully not too far out of sync. Not as good as 2013 but I'll take it.

January 17, 2015	#35
pocossin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: NC zone 8 Posts: 11	Two good links: http://www.plantingbythesigns.net/ Phil Case's blog on moon sign gardening http://www.granny-miller.com/astrolo...rian-practice/ Katherine Grossman on how to select a date I plan to read the two book on moon signs by Taylor Reese and Jack Pyle and will report on them here in a few weeks.

January 17, 2015	#36
tnpeppers Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Zone 6 Posts: 365	I followed the advice of Phil Case last year and got slammed with tomatoes and beans. Coincidence? Got me. I will do the same this year.

February 3, 2015	#39
loulac Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: France Posts: 554	I hope you won’t mind too much my going off line a bit. I must say I had never been much interested in moon cycles till last year when I sowed carrots during “the right period”. A third of the line was eaten by vermin and I sowed them again two weeks later, same place, same packet of seeds The first batch gave perfect carrots when they were all forked in the second batch ! Any explanation will be welcome.