Need to build soil to help with drainage

[gregory]

One of my 20x20 plots holds moisture. I added horse manure and added lime after I did a soil test from auburn. I also planted a cover crop of Crimson clover over the late fall and winter. I just mowed it down on Tuesday .

Last week we received over 3 inches of rain. The other plot close by was dry enough to till yesterday. I tilled the cover crop under last month. Plus I already had a few rows of tomatoes planted. I just needed to form new rows. Then I checked the other plot because I wanted to turn under the cover crop so it would breakdown.
So I checked part of it and it was okay to till not as dry as I would have liked it, but we are expecting rain for the next 4 days. I got to a point where some areas were muddy.

I plan on adding a lot of compost in the fall. First I have to build them now, but in the meantime I need to do something now. I am going to plant okra in a few rows and legumes (southern peas) in the majority of the plot. I have a mountain of shredded leaves. I have one large pile of compost from last summer which I could concentrate where I am planting the okra.

I have a mountain of shredded leaves for building compost piles. I figured I could add a bunch plus a few bags of soil conditioner ( fine bark) to help build it up now. I wouldnt think the carbon would be a problem for the legumes.

Can u think of a better way or do u think this might help?
I planned on adding a lot of compost in the fall regardless.

[peppero]

I use shredded and sometimes pine needles and have good well draining soil. It seems that you have a good plan.

jon

[Redbaron]

As long as the soil is over 60 degrees, just mow again Sunday (exactly 5 days later since Tuesday) right flush with the ground. Then mulch over it and plant your Okra right into it. Leave enough space between the rows, and later when weeds start popping through the mulch...just mow it. Okra is tall. It will outcompete short weeds that keep getting mowed.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

As long as the soil is over 60 degrees, just mow again Sunday (exactly 5 days later since Tuesday) right flush with the ground. Then mulch over it and plant your Okra right into it. Leave enough space between the rows, and later when weeds start popping through the mulch...just mow it. Okra is tall. It will outcompete short weeds that keep getting mowed.

Scott okra is a weed.

As for drainage okra likes lots of water I have never been able to drown it.

This summer it will be dry enough.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Scott okra is a weed.

As for drainage okra likes lots of water I have never been able to drown it.

This summer it will be dry enough.

That's my point actually. No need to dry out the soil by tilling it. As long as the soil is 60 degrees, plant away.

[Worth1]

I was spraying roundup from a tractor in a new pecan orchard one time and asked the owner. Jackie isn't that okra I'm spraying?
He said yeah I planted 40 acres of it 4 years ago and I still cant get rid if it.
It was in a muddy swampy river bottom.

Worth

[gregory]

Originally Posted by gregory

One of my 20x20 plots holds moisture. I added horse manure and added lime after I did a soil test from auburn. I also planted a cover crop of Crimson clover over the late fall and winter. I just mowed it down on Tuesday .

Last week we received over 3 inches of rain. The other plot close by was dry enough to till yesterday. I tilled the cover crop under last month. Plus I already had a few rows of tomatoes planted. I just needed to form new rows. Then I checked the other plot because I wanted to turn under the cover crop so it would breakdown.
So I checked part of it and it was okay to till not as dry as I would have liked it, but we are expecting rain for the next 4 days. I got to a point where some areas were muddy.

I plan on adding a lot of compost in the fall. First I have to build them now, but in the meantime I need to do something now. I am going to plant okra in a few rows and legumes (southern peas) in the majority of the plot. I have a mountain of shredded leaves. I have one large pile of compost from last summer which I could concentrate where I am planting the okra.

I have a mountain of shredded leaves for building compost piles. I figured I could add a bunch plus a few bags of soil conditioner ( fine bark) to help build it up now. I wouldnt think the carbon would be a problem for the legumes.

Can u think of a better way or do u think this might help?
I planned on adding a lot of compost in the fall regardless.

I have 2 choices I can get 8-10 yards of fine pine bark and build it up to 6-8 inches and plant in that. It will drain well, but I may have to water on between the rain. The cost is going to be the issue. Plus I was told a bed in a pick up holds 2 scoops which they said a half yard so between my utility trailer and truck it would be a lot of trips and $$ 16-17.50 per scoop. I am going to see if I can find a better source which is a long shot, or the other alternative costs very little but I would have to wait till next year.

I could just collect leaves and stack them 3 feet or better and just keep them wet
Add some lime due to our acid soil and just wait till next spring

[dustdevil]

You may be victim of the "bathtub effect"...water flows to the area of least resistance. Sometimes too friable in an area of heavy soil causes headaches.

[simmran1]

Gregory,

dustdevil be right, its obvious you’ve got a low spot with poor drainage. One lesser-expensive way you could do to build up your area is to add builder’s sand. (We) have done this at our community garden with great results, as we also have slow drainage and a potentially high water table.

And then a more aggressive idea would be raised beds. As in the traditional sandbox type, using cedar or rot resistant wood in a 2x4” high frame of whatever dimensions. Or maybe you’ve already considered that, but being a low spot, something down below may be preventing drainage, and during a hard downpour it will drown the roots and thus set back your plants.

[bughunter99]

Is it at the lowest part of your yard? Is it feasible to make another part of your yard lower that it? Is it feasible to relocate the plot to a higher part of the yard?

Neither leaves nor bark are going to make the soil drier nor will they raise it enough to make an positive impact. As they degrade, which happens quickly, they flatten out. Leaf mulch retains moisture and will keep your soil wetter. (This is why I love it so much.)

Water seeks the lowest point. You either need to raise the area a lot via soil in raised beds or you need to direct the water away from your plot. Adding compost and things like leaves to soil does help water percolate down, but only as far as the good soil goes. If the plot is still at a low point in the yard, it is going to be the wettest spot.

Stacy

[gregory]

Originally Posted by gregory

One of my 20x20 plots holds moisture. I added horse manure and added lime after I did a soil test from auburn. I also planted a cover crop of Crimson clover over the late fall and winter. I just mowed it down on Tuesday .

Last week we received over 3 inches of rain. The other plot close by was dry enough to till yesterday. I tilled the cover crop under last month. Plus I already had a few rows of tomatoes planted. I just needed to form new rows. Then I checked the other plot because I wanted to turn under the cover crop so it would breakdown.
So I checked part of it and it was okay to till not as dry as I would have liked it, but we are expecting rain for the next 4 days. I got to a point where some areas were muddy.

I plan on adding a lot of compost in the fall. First I have to build them now, but in the meantime I need to do something now. I am going to plant okra in a few rows and legumes (southern peas) in the majority of the plot. I have a mountain of shredded leaves. I have one large pile of compost from last summer which I could concentrate where I am planting the okra.

I have a mountain of shredded leaves for building compost piles. I figured I could add a bunch plus a few bags of soil conditioner ( fine bark) to help build it up now. I wouldnt think the carbon would be a problem for the legumes.

Can u think of a better way or do u think this might help?
I planned on adding a lot of compost in the fall regardless.

Originally Posted by bughunter99

Is it at the lowest part of your yard? Is it feasible to make another part of your yard lower that it? Is it feasible to relocate the plot to a higher part of the yard?

Neither leaves nor bark are going to make the soil drier nor will they raise it enough to make an positive impact. As they degrade, which happens quickly, they flatten out. Leaf mulch retains moisture and will keep your soil wetter. (This is why I love it so much.)

Water seeks the lowest point. You either need to raise the area a lot via soil in raised beds or you need to direct the water away from your plot. Adding compost and things like leaves to soil does help water percolate down, but only as far as the good soil goes. If the plot is still at a low point in the yard, it is going to be the wettest spot.

Stacy

It's pretty much flat and little to no slope. My other plot within 6-7 yards is ok. It gets more sun. This area was once swamp lands back in the early 50's so yes the water table is high. U get away from my area and the soil gets sandier and then perhaps 15 miles away becomes clay. I understand u can plant directly into the pine bark so it must be somewhat composted but it will condensed to half of what it was by the end of the summer. I do know that using the method with leaves works great for tomatoes.
I tried adding soil last year, it didn't help.